Fred Miranda wrote:
It's hard to believe that the Loxia 21/2.8 has such a large variation, but it's true. I had a great copy, sold it, and could never find another one that performed similarly.
I'm a recent victim of this. I tested the Loxia 21/2.8 about 8 years ago, and thought it was the best wide angle lens I've ever used, and though I never bought one, I always craved it. I ended up buying one last week from MPB (adapting it to Nikon), and, well, mine is significantly worse on the left edge than the right, and nowhere near as even and good across the frame as the first one I tried. If you focus in the right spot and stop down to f/8 or so it can still be very good across the frame, but left edge is still lagging a little bit.
I ordered a used CV 21/1.4 that comes today and I hope is everything I'm looking for in a lens, and then I'll return the Loxia.
So my Voigtlander 21/1.4 is here, and as I mentioned I'm adapting it to my Nikon bodies. This lens is VERY finicky about the adapter thickness when used on Nikon. I tried with my Megadap adapter, which works great with my AF lenses, though it is slightly thinner than the perfect flange distance. And the Nokton was ABYSMAL on it. Sharp center, massive field curvature that meant the edges were utter trash if focused on the center until about f/5.6, and then they were only fairly bad.
Put it on my Fotodiox E to Z adapter, which I have but generally don't use because it isn't nearly as good at AF as the Megadaps. That adapter is thicker and with the Nokton, makes the infinity stop dead-on infinity. (and interestingly it was too thick for the Loxia, which couldn't reach infinity on that adapter, though I think a lot of that is the super-thick gasket, which meant it didn't mount well on this adapter either, due to it's slightly recessed construction).
On the Fotodiox, the 21/1.4 is great. Probably not quite as good as it would be on a Sony body, but sharp in the center wide open, reasonable edges, a bit soft in the outer midzone due to the wavy nature Fred mentioned. Stopped down to f/2.8, and it's quite good, even in the corners at 45MP, and very good on 24MP. At f/4-f/5.6 it's essentially perfect. Crazy how much very minor flange distance variations seem to make such an enormous difference in image quality with this lens.
Some quick shots testing it out a bit. First and last at f/1.4, second at f/8.
Jman13 wrote:
So my Voigtlander 21/1.4 is here, and as I mentioned I'm adapting it to my Nikon bodies. This lens is VERY finicky about the adapter thickness when used on Nikon. I tried with my Megadap adapter, which works great with my AF lenses, though it is slightly thinner than the perfect flange distance. And the Nokton was ABYSMAL on it. Sharp center, massive field curvature that meant the edges were utter trash if focused on the center until about f/5.6, and then they were only fairly bad.
Put it on my Fotodiox E to Z adapter, which I have but generally don't use because it isn't nearly as good at AF as the Megadaps. That adapter is thicker and with the Nokton, makes the infinity stop dead-on infinity. (and interestingly it was too thick for the Loxia, which couldn't reach infinity on that adapter, though I think a lot of that is the super-thick gasket, which meant it didn't mount well on this adapter either, due to it's slightly recessed construction).
On the Fotodiox, the 21/1.4 is great. Probably not quite as good as it would be on a Sony body, but sharp in the center wide open, reasonable edges, a bit soft in the outer midzone due to the wavy nature Fred mentioned. Stopped down to f/2.8, and it's quite good, even in the corners at 45MP, and very good on 24MP. At f/4-f/5.6 it's essentially perfect. Crazy how much very minor flange distance variations seem to make such an enormous difference in image quality with this lens.
Some quick shots testing it out a bit. First and last at f/1.4, second at f/8. ...Show more →
Interesting I have two of the Megadap adapters and had the same issues adapting the 21mm. I figured I would just have to use it on my Sony body. Sounds like I may need to pick up a Fotodiox adapter.
DWOfPaul wrote:
Interesting I have two of the Megadap adapters and had the same issues adapting the 21mm. I figured I would just have to use it on my Sony body. Sounds like I may need to pick up a Fotodiox adapter.
Could also try shimming the Megadap. I measured with my micrometer, and it looks like one of mine is 0.07mm too thin, and the other is 0.05mm thin. I can’t check the Fotodiox thickness, but as it is just in focus at the infinity stop at a distance I don’t think I it could be any thicker and still work.
Edit: it can’t. I just added some very thin pieces of tape around the mount surface and that pushes the Fotodiox beyond the place where it can reach infinity. I sort of understand why this lens needs precise registration though: the focus system is such that the front element only extends by about 0.8mm in the entire focus throw, while the rear group moves about 4x that. Needless to say, it appears to be designed so that it depends on that exact mount distance to work. The thinness of the Megadap might be just about the thickness of a piece of packing tape so a few small cutouts of that placed around the adapter surface could possibly get you perfectly lined up for your 21mm.
Jman13 wrote:
So my Voigtlander 21/1.4 is here, and as I mentioned I'm adapting it to my Nikon bodies. This lens is VERY finicky about the adapter thickness when used on Nikon.
I wonder if a VM 21/1.4 with the Voigtlander VM/Z close-focus adapter could be a better combo. Any opinion? experience?
Ripolini wrote:
I wonder if a VM 21/1.4 with the Voigtlander VM/Z close-focus adapter could be a better combo. Any opinion? experience?
I do not have experience with the VM, but I think the same issue would be present, with perhaps even more detriment due to the sensor stack. It's not even really an issue, but rather the design of the lens, with floating elements, REALLY wants to be at the proper registration distance. If it is, it works very well. If it isn't, you'll have problems. I think that if you shimmed the Megadap with some tape or something, you'd likely be able to get it near perfect pretty easily. As I mentioned earlier, my Megadaps are 0.07mm and 0.05mm too thin (I have two). So we're talking minute differences making pretty huge impacts to image quality. Even a single piece of tape, placed at a few spots around a thin adapter will make it work well. My Fotodiox adapter appears to be spot on proper thickness.
Ripolini wrote:
I wonder if a VM 21/1.4 with the Voigtlander VM/Z close-focus adapter could be a better combo. Any opinion? experience?
If you compare PR's sharpness tests on the VM 21/1.4 vs their tests on VE 21/1.4 - that's a big difference. The Nikon Z's slightly thinner sensor stack might behave a little better with the M version lens than the Sony camera can - but probably not a lot better.
Jman13 wrote:
Could also try shimming the Megadap. I measured with my micrometer, and it looks like one of mine is 0.07mm too thin, and the other is 0.05mm thin. I can’t check the Fotodiox thickness, but as it is just in focus at the infinity stop at a distance I don’t think I it could be any thicker and still work.
Edit: it can’t. I just added some very thin pieces of tape around the mount surface and that pushes the Fotodiox beyond the place where it can reach infinity. I sort of understand why this lens needs precise registration though: the focus system is such that the front element only extends by about 0.8mm in the entire focus throw, while the rear group moves about 4x that. Needless to say, it appears to be designed so that it depends on that exact mount distance to work. The thinness of the Megadap might be just about the thickness of a piece of packing tape so a few small cutouts of that placed around the adapter surface could possibly get you perfectly lined up for your 21mm. ...Show more →
Thanks for the suggestion. Probably going to have to wait until the weekend but I will give it a try.
Some from last weekend at the beach in South Haven, MI. The 2nd to the last one was cropped about 1.3X (i.e., an APS-H crop giving about the field of view of a 28mm lens--see my thread on why I think this lens makes the best 28mm lens for Sony), and the last one was cropped about 1.5X (i.e., an APS-C crop giving about the field of view of a 35mm lens). I find this lens is typically all I need for wide angle shooting from 21mm to 35mm.
GMPhotography wrote:
After several years without this lens I bought one the other day . Look forward to shooting it again. I really liked it
I still have the 21mm that I sold to you and you sold back to me. I have the Sony 16-35 PZ but I keep the CV for the sunstar. Wish it were a little lighter though. I had the Loxia 21 a couple times but enjoy the handling of the CV more.
tsdevine wrote:
I had a heck of a time finding a great copy of the Loxia 25.
I tried twice on that one and gave up. @Gunzorro photos with that are stellar, but one I tried had a soupy focus ring, and the other had massive curvature from MFD to about five feet. Boo.
I just got one yesterday! I took it along on a photo shoot today for some friends and took a few wide shots of them just to see how the 21mm would do wide open. It did very well! I haven’t done my post on them yet, but when I do I’ll share a pic. In the meantime, this is one of the first images I took of my wife’s dried up garden.
I had bad luck with a copy of CV21/1.4 I've tried recently. I got it from a store-wide promotion at a nice price, but whole one side was quite tilted/decentered, with the bottom corner being the worst. It took f/4 for that side to look somewhat okayish, but f/5.6 for that particular corner.
At that point I've decided this copy is not worth it and returned the lens, which is a shame as I wanted it to complete my (would be) 21/35/65 MF kit .
. I have the Sony 16-35 PZ but I keep the CV for the sunstar. Wish it were a little lighter though. I had the Loxia 21 a couple times but enjoy the handling of the CV more.
