Desmolicious wrote:
I guess I don't get it - or will not until LightLensLab replies to my queries.
Is it two lenses in one? It seems like it is just the SPII in a new shell - and at that point I don't get why..
Also if it is the SPII repackaged - is it the same length as the SPII?
Why did the SPII have a built in filter and this one does not?
Have the coatings been improved so there no longer is the blue flare at f8 and smaller?
I am seeing HUGE discounts of the SPII - selling for a lot less than when it was introduced so the cynic in me is thinking LLL has a whole bunch of SPII optical blocks/units inventory in storage and is thinking of a way to move that....Show more →
Based on what I gathered from their page, they've incorporated the identical optical design of the SP2 into a replica of the Leica Rigid's shell. I believe the LLL SP2 came with a built-in UV filter to mimic the original. Personally, I appreciate the UV filter and haven't taken mine off. David might be able to discuss flare performance compared to the LLL SP2, but considering it's the same optical design, I don't expect significant differences.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on what I gathered from their page, they've incorporated the identical optical design of the SP2 into a replica of the Leica Rigid's shell. I believe the LLL SP2 came with a built-in UV filter to mimic the original. Personally, I appreciate the UV filter and haven't taken mine off. David might be able to discuss flare performance compared to the LLL SP2, but considering it's the same optical design, I don't expect significant differences.
What I think Huss and I are confused by is the mention of the multi coatings and lanthide-infused glass. I don't remember reading about that in the original LLL SPII description, so it begs the question, "Are these improvements to the original SPII or will optical performance will be identical?"
Desmolicious wrote:
I guess I don't get it - or will not until LightLensLab replies to my queries.
Is it two lenses in one? It seems like it is just the SPII in a new shell - and at that point I don't get why..
Also if it is the SPII repackaged - is it the same length as the SPII?
Why did the SPII have a built in filter and this one does not?
Have the coatings been improved so there no longer is the blue flare at f8 and smaller?
I am seeing HUGE discounts of the SPII - selling for a lot less than when it was introduced so the cynic in me is thinking LLL has a whole bunch of SPII optical blocks/units inventory in storage and is thinking of a way to move that....Show more →
The discounts are Popflash-specific. LLL rarely discounts their lenses that much on their online store. Having watched Popflash's pricing and stock over the last few years, I assume Popflash doesn't like to hold onto gear very long, especially with multiple copies of something in stock.
highdesertmesa wrote:
What I think Huss and I are confused by is the mention of the multi coatings and lanthide-infused glass. I don't remember reading about that in the original LLL SPII description, so it begs the question, "Are these improvements to the original SPII or will optical performance will be identical?"
Got it. I didn't read the full description. It's a mystery! Maybe David will give us more details.
Desmolicious wrote:
A couple of questions... "you" wrote:
The lens features 50mm f/2 Speed Panchro II optical block house in Type Two "Rigid" 50mm f/2 body.
So is this the exact same lens optically as the SPII? Just in a different case?
Is it the same length as the SPII? Which is a very long lens for a 50mm f2
Why does the SPII have a built in filter and this one does not?
Hi! Thanks Fred for Tagging me. My apologies as I am still a bit unfamiliar with how forums function...
To answer your question:
Yes and no, it is the same optical as the SPII, but in Rigid 50mm f/2 Type Two housing. However there are few changes:
- The elements are now multi-coated for a more modern look.
- The Rigid-SPII now has 8 aperture blade instead of 10
No, it is a bit smaller and lighther than the SPII, since the body is base on the Type Two 50mm f/2 Summicorn "Rigid"
The SPII have a built-in filter as it was the standard for original S2 when it was introduced for protecting against environments.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on what I gathered from their page, they've incorporated the identical optical design of the SP2 into a replica of the Leica Rigid's shell. I believe the LLL SP2 came with a built-in UV filter to mimic the original. Personally, I appreciate the UV filter and haven't taken mine off. David might be able to discuss flare performance compared to the LLL SP2, but considering it's the same optical design, I don't expect significant differences.
Side note about the built-in filter. Matt Osborne showed in one his YouTube videos a with/without the built-in filter on the LLL SPII that showed the built-in filter added a lot of unwanted flare to the images when shooting toward the sun (as best I can recall, it's been a while since I watched the video).
LightLensLab wrote:
Hi! Thanks Fred for Tagging me. My apologies as I am still a bit unfamiliar with how forums function...
To answer your question:
Yes and no, it is the same optical as the SPII, but in Rigid 50mm f/2 Type Two housing. However there are few changes:
- The elements are now multi-coated for a more modern look.
- The Rigid-SPII now has 8 aperture blade instead of 10
No, it is a bit smaller and lighther than the SPII, since the body is base on the Type Two 50mm f/2 Summicorn "Rigid"
The SPII have a built-in filter as it was the standard for original S2 when it was introduced for protecting against environments.
@LightLensLab@ Sounds like an interesting remix of the SPII that may appeal to more buyers. I really loved the modern rendering of the prototype SPII I tested, but images from my production version SPII looked very different. I still like the production SPII but for different reasons – the glow at f/2 at middle to long distances for example.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Side note about the built-in filter. Matt Osborne showed in one his YouTube videos a with/without the built-in filter on the LLL SPII that showed the built-in filter added a lot of unwanted flare to the images when shooting toward the sun (as best I can recall, it's been a while since I watched the video).
I will have to test this now. It seems the elements are not multicoated on that lens and that may includes the UV filter. Perhaps I could replace it with a B+W glass if I find it to be the case.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I will have to test this now. It seems the elements are not multicoated on that lens and that may includes the UV filter. I could replace it with a B+W filter if I find it to be the case.
If you don't already have a lens spanner wrench, the Neewer brand wrench I bought off Amazon worked well.
Funny thing is i have seen 1000 different copies of Cooke S2 panchros and none of these looks similar to Light Lens Lab.
I guess at this point they just using the name huh?
I received my copy of the LLL '1966' 50mm f/1.2 yesterday. It's a bit dreary this time of year in the beautiful Pacific Northwest, so it might be a few days before I can shoot/develop/scan photos. Here are my initial impressions of the lens, in-hand and as shot on a Sony A7rII. I have a black paint brass copy.
Build Quality:
Exceptional. This is the nicest of the LLL lenses I have used. Tolerances are tight. The engraving and painting is clean. The quality of the black paint is not glossy (like the 8-Element), but beautifully matte. The 16-blade aperture is smooth with good resistance and distinct clicks (unlike my 8-Element and Elcan copies...more like the SPII I handled). The focus ring turns very smoothly with good resistance, as well. The lens caps (both front and back) appear to made of brass (unlike the prior LLL lenses which have aluminum caps). The included hood is brass and beautifully made (albeit true to the original and comically large). Without caps/hood, the lens weighs almost 560 grams. It ships with an ND4 (in it's own case), a hood (w/ Series VIII UV filter), and a light fawn colored leather case (which is also very attractive). The impression, in-hand, is of a very dense, compact lens of the highest construction standards.
Initial Impression Image Pros:
* Extremely smooth, but intensely characterful bokeh. Other than the appealing size, this is the raison d'etre for this lens. There is swirl and vignetting and the wildest astigmatism (that is extremely divergent in the sagittal and tangential planes...I feel like this is a big part of the look).
* Enough resolution on-center, wide-open with a bit of glow. Unlike, say, the Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 ai-s, the jump between 1.2 and 1.4 on the LLL is obvious. Image contrast and resolution are markedly better at 1.4 on the '1966.' It is also quite sharp stopped down.
* Focus shift is not apparent (this is a relief).
* Decent flare resistance for a single-coated large aperture lens.
Initial Impression Image Cons:
* Onion Rings. I was a little afraid of this. I don't know if the original Leica 50mm f/1.2 exhibited this degree of aspherical structure in the out-of-focus highlights, but the Leica re-issue does not (at least from what I've seen). Perhaps, this is the trade-off of hand-grinding aspheres. It reminds of some images I've seen from the Noct-Nikkor and Canon K35 Cine lenses (specifically the 35mm). I don't want to post samples yet, but it reminds me of my previous-most-onion-ringy lens - the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton V1...which looked like this:
And, I guess, I didn't even know to fret over such things when I took this image in 2008. Lol. Perhaps I can learn to not worry about the the rings in my new LLL lens.
*Geometric distortion. I knew to expect this. It's a lot, but probably won't distract much in most cases.
At any rate, the pros seem to out weight the cons (at least initially). I am excited to get out and use the lens. LLL should be very proud of what they've accomplished. This is a seriously beautiful optic.
betfair wrote:
Funny thing is i have seen 1000 different copies of Cooke S2 panchros and none of these looks similar to Light Lens Lab.
I guess at this point they just using the name huh?
Bet you never came across a copy in a native Leica M mount with M rangefinder coupling, either.
_jim_ wrote:
Initial Impression Image Cons:
* Onion Rings. I was a little afraid of this. I don't know if the original Leica 50mm f/1.2 exhibited this degree of aspherical structure in the out-of-focus highlights, but the Leica re-issue does not (at least from what I've seen). Perhaps, this is the trade-off of hand-grinding aspheres. It reminds of some images I've seen from the Noct-Nikkor and Canon K35 Cine lenses (specifically the 35mm). I don't want to post samples yet, but it reminds me of my previous-most-onion-ringy lens - the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton V1...
Thanks for sharing your initial thoughts!
I think the reissued Leica version has a more modern approach, with molded aspherical elements that result in a cleaner bokeh inner structure. On the other hand, the LLL "1966" version seems to be hand-polished, so you might notice more ring patterns and a busier bokeh inner structure. This adds to its character and brings it closer to the OG.
I am hoping they release a glossy paint version soon as it's my preference.
betfair wrote:
Funny thing is i have seen 1000 different copies of Cooke S2 panchros and none of these looks similar to Light Lens Lab.
I guess at this point they just using the name huh?
_jim_ wrote:
The included hood is brass and beautifully made (albeit true to the original and comically large). Without caps/hood, the lens weighs almost 560 grams. It ships with an ND4 (in it's own case), a hood (w/ Series VIII UV filter), and a light fawn colored leather case (which is also very attractive). The impression, in-hand, is of a very dense, compact lens of the highest construction standards.
560 grams for the brass version is less than expected. Popflash lists it at 632 grams.
Light Lens Lab also mentions these specs for the different materials:
The LLL may be more like the original 1.2...but it's hard to say. There are so few example photographs taken with that lens (at sufficient resolution) to judge. The street silhouettes blog has the most images, but again, a little hard to discern. The LLL '1966' is absolutely gorgeous, but here are the onion rings in question (a throw away image, for sure, but highlights what I am talking about).
