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Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review

  
 
lensfan
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p.46 #1 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


phinix wrote:
I would love to have CV APO lens, but for me those are too heavy and big.

I'm waiting for Cosina to make second iteration - imagine 35mm f2 APO VM II - in size of Leica 35 APO!
Hmmmm mmmm....


Current VM version is smaller and nicer in the hand compared to E version.



Jul 14, 2023 at 06:16 PM
philip_pj
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p.46 #2 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


And there is the rub - M users and E/Z users have VERY different priorities, preferences and lens design constraints - worlds apart, in fact.

Few of the latter group consider ~350g to be heavy, nor 62-67mm length to be large. Especially if the performance is compelling. And for the weight of the 75/90mm M APOs (430g/500g), CV could work wonders for us, right now.



Jul 14, 2023 at 07:05 PM
philip_pj
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p.46 #3 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


There are two FF lens configurations at the link, one for a 35/1.2 and the 35/1.4 Vento mentioned. Both are nine element designs, which is their standard go-to arrangement for mid-FL lenses - 8s or 9s. They have the patented 35/1.4 inside a 60mm lens body length, and the current 35/1.2 for VM is 61mm. These are possibly (if they see light of day) their next output in the assembly line seemingly exclusively dedicated to endless fast 35s and 50s.

At the high end, Cosina appear to agree with Leica that high performance lenses should carry f2 max apertures - 35/2, 50/2, 65/2 (1:2) and 110/2.5 (1:1). Leica have almost a double digit count of APOs at f2 in both M and SL.

Element count is not everything, but it's a sound indication of what to expect. So, as we see in the recent longer FLs for VM at 75mm (7/5) and 90mm (7/7), CV is chasing 'instilled character' in their lenses, rather than performance that drops your jaw.

By comparison, their 35/2 APO-L is 11/9 and the 50/2 APO-L is 10/8, and both are loaded with fine glass. The Leica SL APOs at 35-50-90 are 13/11-11/9-11/9 designs. All the now-defunct longer (50mm plus) Milvus and Otuses have between 10-14 elements (except the old 100/2). For how the APOs handle portraits, see recent 50/2 posts - these are far from being just 'landscape lenses', any more than the Otuses and Milvuses are. The best lenses tend to be excellent all rounders.



Jul 14, 2023 at 07:07 PM
phinix
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p.46 #4 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


lensfan wrote:
Current VM version is smaller and nicer in the hand compared to E version.


I know, but if Leica can make such small lens, why Cosina couldn't do the same?



Jul 14, 2023 at 07:11 PM
lensfan
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p.46 #5 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


I mean, CV's 35 APO for M is smaller than for E mount.
It may not be as small as Leica's apo (don't remember its dimensions) but small enough for me considering 10x times price difference.

phinix wrote:
I know, but if Leica can make such small lens, why Cosina couldn't do the same?




Jul 14, 2023 at 07:27 PM
RexGig0
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p.46 #6 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


phinix wrote:
I know, but if Leica can make such small lens, why Cosina couldn't do the same?


Packing optical performance into a small size is very costly, both in development and in production. Cosina probably could make a smaller 35mm APO, but, would they be able to do it, to sell at a typical Cosina/Voigtlander price point? Notice that the Nokton 50mm f/1.0 VM does manage to compete well with Noctilux lenses, in optics and size, but costs considerably more than a typical Voigtlander lens, and does not seem to be attracting many buyers. (I fully appreciated what the Nokton 50mm f/1.0 VM offered, and bought one.)

Before I was interested in photographing with interchangeable-lens cameras, I liked high-quality binoculars, and was looking into acquiring telescopes. As with camera lenses, achieving that final small measure of optical performance, or maintaining performance, while miniaturizing the device, will substantially increase the price.

Packing APO optics into a Leica APO-sized body would result in a ‘halo” product, that would increase internet and social media buzz, but would the actual financial return justify the effort?



Edited on Jul 15, 2023 at 09:41 AM · View previous versions



Jul 15, 2023 at 12:00 AM
philip_pj
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p.46 #7 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


There are excellent videos of Peter Karbe explaining the ordeal Leica went through to design and produce the 35/2 APO-M. The best summary might be: a remarkable achievement selling for a remarkable price. Cosina's 95% effort will please many people at a small fraction of the M lens asking price. Karbe is a believer in the central importance of color correction as the means of achieving the high MTF target.

You can see some echoes of Leica's signature moves in the newer CV lenses. But the 35/2 APO-M uses a daunting 10/5 design (three cemented doubles and a cemented triplet (!)) to get the compactness with the quality. At/near WO, it is a trad M lens with a super centre and steady loss out to still sound corners.

The CV is different - a high correlation between a merely great centre and very similar corners. At f2 it has the stronger corners, for example, and the rendering is utterly linear for very high cross-frame photorealism with a finely balanced yet saturated colour palette - a near-perfect 'documentation' lens, as you see in this thread.

But these two are very close in overall technical performance, they have the MTF pattern of the best medium telephotos. If you funded Cosina to make a mirrorless lens of the technical capability of the 35/2 APO-M, they could readily buy performance by extending their current design with an extra 1-2 elements and perhaps the new asph grinding tech for an extra asph surface on one of them. Sell it as a limited series for $2000. We hope they stretch their ambitions yet.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/03/leica-apo-summicron-m-35mm-f-2-asph/



Jul 15, 2023 at 02:57 AM
lensfan
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p.46 #8 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Also need to remember that Cosina makes one design for several bigger mounts, including huge Z mount. Where small reduction in length will be less critical.


Jul 15, 2023 at 03:58 AM
ashwinrao1
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p.46 #9 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


A few recent APO-Lanthar images from my recent time at a Seal concert. He's a Leica devotee, and was kind enough to send me a pass to photograph the show.

M11































M11 Mono
































Needless to say, this lens delivers upon all of its promises and even more. The only "fault" I see is in its size (as it's as voluminous or more so than most 35 mm f/1.4 lenses), but the optics are nearly unparallelled, as far as I can tell, and it's a joy to use, handle, and re-discover once sitting down with the images for editing. TO me, this and the 50 APO lanthar remain the pinnacle of Voigtlander lens production/design/execution.



Jul 15, 2023 at 11:05 AM
Peire
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p.46 #10 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


OdS

















Jul 16, 2023 at 10:54 AM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

itai195
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p.46 #11 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


One thing worth mentioning as well in comparison to the Leica 35 APO – you can actually buy the CV lens quite easily. The Leica is still on a ~12 month (or longer) waiting list. Quite remarkable that you get >90% of the performance, 10% of the price, and ready availability and the tradeoff is a bit of bulk but not terribly objectionable.

I know I'll add this one to my kit someday, but pacing myself having recently gotten the 35 steel rim reissue.



Jul 16, 2023 at 04:07 PM
philip_pj
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p.46 #12 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


Many would prefer the Voigtlander APO lenses at price parity. Lens quality is not a linear scale, these are quite different optics with very different target audiences, different performance profiles, different colour palettes, different strengths and weaknesses in tone separation and depth presentation.

Cosina makes lenses with a Zeiss background influence but shoehorned into Leica form factors. But it's understandable Leica people compare them, because the M lenses are their reference point and many believe nothing can be better. It's the nuances they are missing, and it's rarely discussed.

Some of what I have hinted at can be seen in Steve Huff's (too) short comparo of the 50mm APOs from each company. And for these finer level characteristics the viewer's perception is a large factor as well.

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2021/08/17/crazy-comparison-leica-50-apo-vs-voigtlander-50-apo-a-9k-vs-1k-lens/ (he uses the VM, which is weaker than the E vsn wide open)



Jul 16, 2023 at 04:56 PM
Peire
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p.46 #13 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


OdS

















Jul 19, 2023 at 04:25 AM
RexGig0
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p.46 #14 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


itai195 wrote:
One thing worth mentioning as well in comparison to the Leica 35 APO – you can actually buy the CV lens quite easily. The Leica is still on a ~12 month (or longer) waiting list. Quite remarkable that you get >90% of the performance, 10% of the price, and ready availability and the tradeoff is a bit of bulk but not terribly objectionable.

I know I'll add this one to my kit someday, but pacing myself having recently gotten the 35 steel rim reissue.


To address the last point, I know exactly what you mean, in that finding, and immediately buying, a suddenly-available 2022 Steel Rim, earlier this month, reset my 2023 budget, and probably 2024, as well. (Leica Camera USA had a batch of them, now sold-out, of course.) After recently seeing some of the local asking prices, for DSLR lenses, I now fully realize just how much value my DSLR lenses have lost, even those had I/we bought pre-owned, myself, just a few short years ago. (We live near a large pro-oriented camera store, Houston Camera Exchange, a good source for pre-owned lenses, where we have routinely shopped their Used display cases.)

I might have yet still bought a Cosina/Voigtlander, perhaps an APO Lanthar, probably the 50, but, my wife has recently gotten into “mothing” in a big way, and I found a good macro flash kit (Nikon R1C1) at KEH. Even pre-owned, a complete R1C1 kit is not cheap, so, Cameraquest is going to have to wait a bit longer, to get my money. (The folks chasing moths, in the evenings, are every bit as serious as those who watch and photograph birds. Fortunately, the forensic/evidentiary/crime scene kit, that I assembled/accumulated from 2010 to 2018, for night work, means that I am already well-equipped for Much Ado About Mothing.)

If I were to start producing work for others, again, either by returning to a public servant job, “volunteer” work*, or perhaps private sector, such as insurance claims, and wanted to use an M camera for the “normal” angle shots, I would probably start by purchasing two 50mm APO Lanthar lenses. A simple mathematical business decision. (In actuality, I would probably rather keep vocation and avocation separate, and simply use my DSLR kit to produce images for others.)

*Moth images are, actually, dabbling in this volunteer work. My wife uses some of my DSLR macro/close-range images, in her citizen scientist role.



Jul 19, 2023 at 09:59 AM
Renez
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p.46 #15 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


I had the 50APO. Perfect. But it’s way too big and heavy. So I sold it. Also very little charm or character. Because its Perfect.


Jul 19, 2023 at 11:27 AM
IndyFab
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p.46 #16 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review




A7rIII CV35 APO



Jul 22, 2023 at 03:33 PM
szwayko
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p.46 #17 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review




Canon R5 CV35 APO f/8



Jul 26, 2023 at 02:43 PM
IndyFab
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p.46 #18 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


szwayko wrote:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53073535579_00bae0eadb_k.jpg


Canon R5 CV35 APO f/8



What mount is the 35APO

How are you adapting the CV 35 apo to the R5 RF mount



Jul 27, 2023 at 01:02 AM
Sundial
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p.46 #19 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review


ashwinrao1 wrote:
A few recent APO-Lanthar images from my recent time at a Seal concert. He's a Leica devotee, and was kind enough to send me a pass to photograph the show.

M11

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52972780676_01822e7fbf_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52973165440_8e687b2340_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52972925469_4e14109b28_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52973237653_9dfe20c331_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52980353645_40d8814338_b.jpg

M11 Mono

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52980122789_708fd787d0_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52980434053_8c84dafa23_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52975375224_c2948107cf_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52972781176_cf544fcda8_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52972781156_3c9bcd2ff5_b.jpg

Needless to say, this lens delivers upon all of its promises and even more. The only "fault" I see is in its size (as it's as voluminous or more so than most 35 mm f/1.4 lenses), but the optics are nearly unparallelled, as far as I can tell, and it's a joy to use, handle, and re-discover once sitting down with the images for editing. TO me, this and
...Show more



Beautiful shots.

Thank you for sharing them.



Jul 27, 2023 at 02:44 AM
tsdevine
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p.46 #20 · Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Review



Would have to be Leica M mount wouldn't it?

IndyFab wrote:
What mount is the 35APO

How are you adapting the CV 35 apo to the R5 RF mount





Jul 27, 2023 at 05:35 AM
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