When I have it side by side with my Summicron Asph II (which is for service in Wetzlar at the moment), I will do some tests and decide which to keep and sell respectively. I think the Leica has a serious challenger here after seeing the YouTube review posted here previously.
Steve Spencer wrote:
The Voigtlander lenses aren't even close to being the same. The f/1.2 render nothing like the f/2 APOs and to my eyes even the 35 f/2 is much different from the 28 f/2 and the 35 f/1.7 something different yet. I just don't think you can lump all the Voigtlander lenses together.
I definetly agree with this. A major part of why I love the brand.
Steve Spencer wrote:
The Voigtlander lenses aren't even close to being the same. The f/1.2 render nothing like the f/2 APOs and to my eyes even the 35 f/2 is much different from the 28 f/2 and the 35 f/1.7 something different yet. I just don't think you can lump all the Voigtlander lenses together.
I was referring to the 35/2 and 28/2 lenses. Mind you even the new 50/1.5 ii has a similar swirly effect.
Jul 16, 2021 at 07:13 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
MCMXCAD wrote:
I was referring to the 35/2 and 28/2 lenses. Mind you even the new 50/1.5 ii has a similar swirly effect.
Even comparing the new 35 f/2 with the new 28 f/2, I agree with Fred's assessment of the bokeh--I think the 28 f/2 II is quite a bit better. It is still far from perfect, but I think it is not at all like the 35 f/2 either. With regard to some swirl in the bokeh, that is caused primarily by vignetting, so just like cat's eyes in the bokeh any small lens is going to have some swirl and some cat's eye shapes wide open at least for part of the frame. The more subjective question is how that looks to you and for me I would say the 28 f/2 II has a pattern to the bokeh that I like a lot more than the pattern to the 35 f/2 but as always and particularly with bokeh, YMMV.
MCMXCAD wrote:
I was referring to the 35/2 and 28/2 lenses. Mind you even the new 50/1.5 ii has a similar swirly effect.
The CV 50/1.5 II has the highest optical vignetting from the lenses you mentioned, so you see more swirl and cats-eye bokeh when shooting with it wide open, especially if your subject is at mid-distance. For those who do not like the effect, it could be a negative.
The CV 35/2 Ultron is a high resolving lens but not as sharp as the previous 35/1.7 Ultron. Rendering is also structured and a little busy at transition zone. IMO, it's a compact character lens and many shooters like the look. I feel that the 28/2 Ultron II is similar to the 35/1.7 in rendering. Not perfect but pleasant for most scenes.
raizans wrote:
Have you tried f/4 for photos like these? The bokeh of the 28mm Ultron seems to behave like the 35mm Ultron: harsh at f/2, smooth at f/4.
Maybe the bokeh on indoor environmental portraits, my most common use case, will look fine at f/2?
These are similar to the kinds of situations where I found that the 28mm f/1.9 Ultron LTM gave me what I wanted. I'd say the new Ultron II is a keeper. These are perfect!
Picking raspberry. Love that jam!
Thank you for these. The first one and the girls on the beach was something I was after. Mainly into portraits and people photography, so this helps than empty cans and forests 😂
Just came across this review, very well done. -
Looks like as I thought, for me Cron is a better option with much less to no vignetting and a smoother bokeh.
Jul 19, 2021 at 07:16 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
MCMXCAD wrote:
Just came across this review, very well done. -
Looks like as I thought, for me Cron is a better option with much less to no vignetting and a smoother bokeh.
One could certainly argue the bokeh is better on the Leica M 28 cron, but it simply isn't true that the 28 cron has less to no vignetting. The 28 cron has over two stops of vignetting at f/2 and almost 2 stops at f/2.8. Leica doesn't hide this either, they publish this data as part of their data sheet for the lens.
MCMXCAD wrote:
Just came across this review, very well done. -
Looks like as I thought, for me Cron is a better option with much less to no vignetting and a smoother bokeh.
If you have unlimited funds and money is no object then maybe you would like to purchase the Leica M 28mm f2 Summicron Asph (new price $4995; used on eBay from about $2900) or the Leica 28mm f2.8 Elmarit Asph (new price made in Germany $2695; made in Portugal $2399; used on eBay from $1700 or $2048). The new Voigtlander new is $899.
Are you shooting film or digital? For digital, the vignetting is easily corrected.
Also, and I am not sure, if you are using the Leica lenses on an M10 or M10R for example, I am not sure if the vignetting for the Leica lenses may be baked into the camera for correction.
MCMXCAD wrote:
Just came across this review, very well done. -
Looks like as I thought, for me Cron is a better option with much less to no vignetting and a smoother bokeh.
8.9 out of 10? Based on what?
I didn't see any direct comparison to the Leica 28/2 Cron so, without side by sides, it's just his opinion.
There is definitely some hype with Leica lenses and lots of reviewers like to think that if a lens is pricey, it must be better optically. All lenses have compromises but there are some merits to the cost of Leica lenses as they are very well built with extreme tight tolerance and low variance which is not cheap to produce. They definitely go above and beyond there.
However, although most Leica M-lenses perform at a high level for their size, there are some third party lenses that can perform even better in terms of resolution/contrast and even rendering for a fraction of the price.
Yes, definitely pixel peeping there and that was on 40MP.
He spent half of the video talking about vignetting fall-off but I would not worry about it that much and think all small 28mm f/2 lenses would perform similarly before correction. (in-camera or in-post)
I didn't see any direct comparison to the Leica 28/2 Cron so, without a side by sides, it's just his opinion.
There is definitely some hype with Leica lenses and lots of reviewers like to think that if a lens is pricey, it must be better optically. All lenses have compromises but there are some merits to the cost of Leica lenses as they are very well built with extremely tight tolerance and low variance which is not cheap to produce. However, although most Leica M-lenses perform at a high level for their size, some third party lenses can perform even better at a fraction of the price.
Yes, definitely pixel peeping there and that was on 40MP.
He spent half of the video talking about vignetting fall-off but I would not worry about it that much and think all small 28mm f/2 lenses would perform similarly before correction. (in-camera or in-post)...Show more →
Hi Fred,
Your link for the corners shows the crops near infinity. Below is an image taken with the lens and my Kolari Vision UT sensor modified A7rII which isn't quite as good with the wide angle M-mount lenses as the M- series Leicas. The full frame image was posted in this thread previously; focus was on the spikes of flowers at between 5 and 10' or so away, taken at f4 and yes this was processed in LR with sharpening and detail increased from LR default of 25 to 28 and 27 respectively and also no adjustment for vignetting. It was just fortuitist that the corners were basically at the same distance as the focus point. The second and third images are the lower left and lower right corners respectively of the image at 100% and again, the lens was set to f4.
There is something I am still scratching my head regarding Leica and third party M-lenses like Voigtlander's.
All Leica M lenses I've tried so far (35/1.4 lux, 50/1.4 lux, 28/2.8, 90/2.8) perform equally on M and SL bodies. I'm talking pixel peeping on 40/47MP bodies from center to extreme corners. I mean equal performance!
However with Voigtlander lenses, not so much. The CV 28/2 II gets close in performance (Link) but it's still better on the M and the CV 35/1.7 Ultron, CV 50/2 APO and CV 50/1.2 Nokton lenses perform noticeably better on the M. At first I thought that the 6-bit code was doing some magic but after adding the code to the Voigt lenses, the results are still the same.....Not sure what I think here.
If you are using both systems though (M and SL) and want your lenses performing at a very high level at the corners, Leica lenses may have an advantage here, at least for the lenses I've tested so far.
naturephoto1 wrote:
If you have unlimited funds and money is no object then maybe you would like to purchase the Leica M 28mm f2 Summicron Asph (new price $4995; used on eBay from about $2900) or the Leica 28mm f2.8 Elmarit Asph (new price made in Germany $2695; made in Portugal $2399; used on eBay from $1700 or $2048). The new Voigtlander new is $899.
Are you shooting film or digital? For digital, the vignetting is easily corrected.
Also, and I am not sure, if you are using the Leica lenses on an M10 or M10R for example, I am not sure if the vignetting for the Leica lenses may be baked into the camera for correction.
Rich
...Show more →
Well, isn't 'unlimited funds' given in Leica world? 😂 I certainly didn't notice much vignetting when I used the new 28 cron last year. Compared to that the Ultron seems to have more. Of course you can always include price when comparing but I like to keep price away when thinking of lens rendering. It's anothr question that I may not be able to afford or think it is not worth and not buy it. I am using m10p and yes it all can be corrected digitally but I just don't like too much vignetting. For the same reason, I don't like 28 Lux either which is widely praised. That is just me.
"Natural vignetting refers to radial falloff due to geometric optics: Different regions of the image plane receive different irradiance (see Figure 2). For simple lenses, these effects are sometimes modeled as a falloff of cos4(θ ), whereθ is the angle at which the light exits from the rear of the lens. Note that in all lenses, the distance from the exit pupil to the image plane changes when the focus distance is changed, so this component varies with focus distance....
Pixel vignetting refers to radial falloff due to the angular sensitivity of digital optics. This type of vignetting – which affects only digital cameras – is due to the finite depth of the photon wells in digital sensors, which causes light striking a photon well at a steeper angle to be partially occluded by the sides of the well..."
or $2048). The new Voigtlander new is $899.
