LightShow wrote:
A 10% premium for the cheaper to produce finish that isn't as durable... where do I sign up?
Does this mean the M11 is around the corner?
Who told you paint is cheaper to produce? Whoever did was wrong.
After more than two years, I decided to purchase a secondhand M10-R black paint edition from the buy and sell board (only 150 actuations!), and I've been thoroughly enjoying it. It's indeed accurate when someone mentions that it has a much more appealing look and tactile feel when you see it in person!
It looks like it was discontinued last year though.
1bwana1 wrote:
Congratulations on the new camera Fred. It really is a beautiful finish on an M camera. I hope it brings you many years of enjoyable shooting.
-Steve-
Thanks Steve,
I don't have any Leica lenses in black paint, but it complements Voigtlander black paint lenses quite well. For example, the cross-knurling design of the M10-R Black Paint's dials matches the focusing ring on the 50/1.5 Heliar Black Paint lens quite elegantly.
Here's a quick phone picture showing the similar cross-knurling design. The M10-R BP features this texture on all the dials, including the ISO dial, which makes it simpler to grip and adjust.
I had a great time using the M10-R, both the black chrome and silver versions, more than any other Leica camera. Selling them never crossed my mind. My plan was to keep and maintain them for a long time. However, I've liked the M9-P and MP black paint style in a rangefinder. I also wanted the 40MP sensor because it's more than enough for my needs, and my side-by-side highlight recovery tests showed that it offers the same dynamic range as an M11. That's why the M10-R black paint version seemed like the perfect choice, combining the features I highly value.
Similar to the M9-P, the paint finish on this camera can scratch easily, and eventually, some brassing will show up. I'm very careful with my cameras, so it will take a long time for that to happen.
Good to compare it to the M9-P as they are both the last-best of their sensor types, CCD and CMOS FSI. I think the M10-R has a distinctive look that I like a little better than the BSI M11.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Good to compare it to the M9-P as they are both the last-best of their sensor types, CCD and CMOS FSI. I think the M10-R has a distinctive look that I like a little better than the BSI M11.
The M11 captures colors that closely resemble real life, but personally, I find the colors from the M10-R more appealing. When using the M11, blues come out as true blues, while the M10-R tends to give them a tealish tint. I also prefer the greens and reds produced by the M10-R, even though the M11 is more accurate in rendering hues. I recall there used to be a magenta bias in the M11's files; I'm not sure if that's been fixed. Some people might like it, but I found it to be a distracting color cast.
Cobalt created a M10-R color profile that can be used with the M11. I have it, and it works really well. It restores the M10-R colors. After that, All I needed to do is reduce the tint globally to around -10 to eliminate the magenta bias.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The M11 captures colors that closely resemble real life, but personally, I find the colors from the M10-R more appealing. When using the M11, blues come out as true blues, while the M10-R tends to give them a tealish tint. I also prefer the greens and reds produced by the M10-R, even though the M11 is more accurate in rendering hues. I recall there used to be a magenta bias in the M11's files; I'm not sure if that's been fixed. Some people might like it, but I found it to be a distracting color cast.
Cobalt created a M10-R color profile that can be used with the M11. I have it, and it works really well. It restores the M10-R colors. After that, All I needed to do is reduce the tint globally to around -10 to eliminate the magenta bias....Show more →
I pretty much left the M11 on daylight WB all the time. I don’t think Leica ever claimed to have fixed the magenta bias (which would mean admitting a magenta bias), but on my last M11 with the current firmware, the auto WB seemed to not be as magenta biased as before. For what it’s worth, this was a big issue with many other cameras I’ve used like the GFX series.
I thought the M10-R sometimes was too green biased, but I prefer that to magenta as a less offensive starting point
Fred Miranda wrote:
The M11 captures colors that closely resemble real life, but personally, I find the colors from the M10-R more appealing. When using the M11, blues come out as true blues, while the M10-R tends to give them a tealish tint. I also prefer the greens and reds produced by the M10-R, even though the M11 is more accurate in rendering hues. I recall there used to be a magenta bias in the M11's files; I'm not sure if that's been fixed. Some people might like it, but I found it to be a distracting color cast.
Cobalt created a M10-R color profile that can be used with the M11. I have it, and it works really well. It restores the M10-R colors. After that, All I needed to do is reduce the tint globally to around -10 to eliminate the magenta bias....Show more →
From what I've encountered, M11 magenta bias seems to be a LightRoom profile effect. Something I never really noticed until you pointed it out and you know how "once you see" goes...
I've noticed LRC seems to load M11 files with a Tint setting in the range of +16 to +24 mostly in the +20s depending on lighting /colors in the scene--often outside sunlight images. Sometimes this results in a magenta bias in some scenes. Simply sliding the LRC Tint to a lower setting can help to eliminate any noticeable Magenta bias. But don't slide too much as that can introduce green/yellow bias. Usually in the single + digit does it when needed.
I've also noticed DxOPhotoLab 6 for instance will load the same images with less Tint push normally in the +single digit range and no magenta bias. But again, depends on the colors and lighting in the file.
These are my general findings when I do see a combination of colors and light that might result in magenta bias on an M11 file when applying LightRoom profiles. As always YMMV when it comes to colors.
You’re right about the colors M11 vs M10R. The M11 is looking like every other camera with that same sensor. More accuracy was never the goal. The goal of the M was to bring back the film era cameras and films are not color accurate. This is why I prefer the M10R with that sensor rather than the M11 with the Sony sensor.
Now sensors are more accurate and the new lenses are more perfected. The Leica M is really going the wrong way.
The old film cameras looked good in silver, but the digital Leicas really do look better in black. In silver is just looks like any metal painted silver.
The only great looking silver Leica M was the M2 and the M3 is a masterpiece. No top plate in finished like that.
