artsupreme wrote:
Geez, sounds like a shit show. Where were you, in the Mara National Reserve?
The crowds and pricing are getting out of hand lately. I think some of it has to do with people making up for their canceled trips during covid.
Yep, NR. What is going on now is that in some parts (in particular near the border on the east side; so Talek etc) the grass is shorter and thus more animals are concentrated there (and yes, grazing of cows has something to do with that).
Obviously, the vehicles will follow. You see quite a big difference in behaviour of local Masai guides vs the 'Nairobi' guides; these guys act much more foolish, harassing wlldlife and showing no etiquette regarding photography (ruining shots, etc).
Feb used to be a quiet month but because of that, more people want to visit in Feb now. Also, the fee increase for the park is not very well done I think. In the first half of the year (Jan 1 - June 30) the increase is only marginal, from like 80 usd to a 100, whereas in the second half of the year it went up to 200. So the first half is much more cheaper now and therefore more attractive.
I think they should make it a flat fee of 200 usd whole year round. This will shake out the budget operators and hopefully camps as well. This is unfortunately the only way to save the Mara; get rid of the overcrowding of tourists
Kenya ( Amboseli National Park, Lake Naivasha, Lake Nakuru National Park and Masai Mara National Reserve)
Tanzania ( The safari takes you to the Tarangire, Serengeti and Ngorongoro Crater )
This are all organized tours
Well, these are all the major parks on both sides of the border, so it really comes down to your priorities. There are no bad choices with all these places. My advice would be to minimize the number of parks you visit so you're spending more time on safari and less time packing and traveling between places. I'd suggest a minimum of three nights per stop.
evertdoorn wrote:
I honestly doubt if - for that kind of money - the driver is actually any good in driving in the Mara and, more important, knows how to act as a guide
The Mara is very easy to drive in these days because you are limited to existing roads and trails. In the old days we could drive anywhere.
The key to the game drives these days are the radios. The rangers even in the light aircraft and other guides are constantly updating what animals are where. All you need is a radio and ability to understand Swahili and Massai.
You will have no problem finding a good driver for the Mara.
I used to sometimes go and stay with the drivers at the various camps and lodges. The charge was $30 a day including three meals. Probably a bit more these days.
Self drive from Nairobi and hiring a local driver for game drives is also a viable solution.
No way would I ever pay what they are charging tourists these days. Especially for an extended stay. Crazy money.
1bwana1 wrote:
The Mara is very easy to drive in these days because you are limited to existing roads and trails. In the old days we could drive anywhere.
The key to the game drives these days are the radios. The rangers even in the light aircraft and other guides are constantly updating what animals are where. All you need is a radio and ability to understand Swahili and Massai.
You will have no problem finding a good driver for the Mara.
.
And that's why it looks like this in the NP's....tons of aggressive Mario Karts jockeying for position with loads of iPhone shooters doing selfies:
artsupreme wrote:
And that's why it looks like this in the NP's....tons of aggressive Mario Karts jockeying for position with loads of iPhone shooters doing selfies:
And that is why I always self drive in the remote areas. That is not Safari as I know it nor would accept. Real Africa still exists in some remote areas. These pictures just make me sad and angry.
Is this what you guys are experiencing when you go to Africa? Why go?
The conservancies in the Mara have rules about the number of vehicles at each animal sighting. Most of the NR does not. As far as I know, only the Mara Triangle has a 5 car (maybe 3 car) limit at an animal sighting.
I would more strongly consider other parks in Africa, like Lower Zambezi, South Luangwa and Mana Pools, but I haven't gotten good recommendations from anyone, and the flights are shit
1bwana1 wrote:
And that is why I always self drive in the remote areas. That is not Safari as I know it nor would accept. Real Africa still exists in some remote areas. These pictures just make me sand and angry.
Is this what you guys are experiencing when you go to Africa? Why go?
That's what I saw while passing through the NP's, I guess that's the experience you get on a low budget when hiring low budget drivers. It just made me appreciate the conservancies that much more. No way would I ever travel all the way to Africa from where I live to deal with that nonsense. I couldn't believe my eyes while watching these guys jockey for mediocre sightings at best. Hopefully the price hikes will change things in the NP's.
I'm sure there are affordable ways to self drive to remote/uncrowded locations but I think that's' a very unlikely option for your typical safari tourist. For most, if you want the best experience with no crowds you have to pay to play. Likely between $1700-2300 per day for two people with your own vehicle in the high season.
If you go during November, it works out to about 10k USD for 7 (7 days of game drives) days + all domestic flights and a hotel in NBO on arrival night. That is 2 days Amboseli + 5 days Mara. All in conservancies That is for a single person (so paying the single supplement).
As far as wildlife trips that focus on megafauna go, I think this is reasonably affordable. Yellowstone can be substantially cheaper, but its much harder to get a decent image. Ive looked into tours that look for jaguars in Brazil. Definitely cheaper than conservancies in Kenya, but its extremely difficult to take a compelling image of a jaguar. I am sure there are other options that may offer a better opportunity per $$, but I haven't found them yet.
I first went to Africa (Kenya) in 2007 and indeed at Samburu there was a feeding frenzy at a leopard sighting. However, in the Mara, we stayed at 3 different camps and there were no crowds. We were at a lion kill even before they had started feeding and stayed for over an hour, no other cars. We were in an organized group of 15, in 5 cars with 3 photographers in each. We saw mating lions, again, no crowds. The maximum cars (less than 10) were at the megacrossing we were so lucky to see where over 10,000 animals must have crossed.
I remember at the end we were in the Triangle and had a great time with a cheetah and cubs playing around. No other cars apart from our group. I believe it was Queenie and she jumped on our vehicle.
Now it is total madness anywhere in the Mara Reserve. I've been several times in the past 4 yrs and it is absolute chaos. The only respite you get is in the conservancies which are increasing their rates every year because they know people will still come.
There is no easy solution to the crowds. If you jack up the park fees then you are accused of being elitist and yet, the present rush cannot be sustained. If you restrict the number of vehicles entering the reserve then the camps go out of business.
Already the animal behavior is changing. It is now reported that the hyenas in the Mara do not hunt any more, they just follow the cars which they know will lead them to a kill which they can then steal, esp if it is a cheetah kill. I saw this with my own eyes, a hyena following the caravan of cars we were in as we followed a cheetah family.
I have seen a fresh kill by a Cheetah family in Amboseli abandoned as it was close to the road and the cars formed a circle around the feeding animals preventing them from seeing potential threats.
I now tell everyone, go before the animals are gone.
Overtourism is a big problem in many parts of the world. I usually avoid these types of places and trips. It's crazy and sad
However, on this trip I am mainly interested in climbing Kilimanjaro and I will add a cheap safaris to make the trip more interesting
After volunteering at an orphanage in eastern Tanzania, I was offered a very cheap safari by a local group in recognition of my volunteering. I thanked them but decided to rather spend some time on Zanzibar. I just cannot see the joy of harassing some wild animals, especially if it’s just to get some photos. I’d much rather watch some nature shows in my living room and leave the animals to live their lives without humans gawking at them.
Primus wrote:
I first went to Africa (Kenya) in 2007 and indeed at Samburu there was a feeding frenzy at a leopard sighting. However, in the Mara, we stayed at 3 different camps and there were no crowds. We were at a lion kill even before they had started feeding and stayed for over an hour, no other cars. We were in an organized group of 15, in 5 cars with 3 photographers in each. We saw mating lions, again, no crowds. The maximum cars (less than 10) were at the megacrossing we were so lucky to see where over 10,000 animals must have crossed.
I remember at the end we were in the Triangle and had a great time with a cheetah and cubs playing around. No other cars apart from our group. I believe it was Queenie and she jumped on our vehicle.
Now it is total madness anywhere in the Mara Reserve. I've been several times in the past 4 yrs and it is absolute chaos. The only respite you get is in the conservancies which are increasing their rates every year because they know people will still come.
There is no easy solution to the crowds. If you jack up the park fees then you are accused of being elitist and yet, the present rush cannot be sustained. If you restrict the number of vehicles entering the reserve then the camps go out of business.
Already the animal behavior is changing. It is now reported that the hyenas in the Mara do not hunt any more, they just follow the cars which they know will lead them to a kill which they can then steal, esp if it is a cheetah kill. I saw this with my own eyes, a hyena following the caravan of cars we were in as we followed a cheetah family.
I have seen a fresh kill by a Cheetah family in Amboseli abandoned as it was close to the road and the cars formed a circle around the feeding animals preventing them from seeing potential threats.
I now tell everyone, go before the animals are gone. ...Show more →
My first trip to Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Kenya and TZ was in 1995. Yes it's certainly changed since then... however I always found Kenya to be my least favorite due to package tourism. I frequent TZ and South Africa these days and I specifically target certain times of the year to visit.
I don't mind NP (although you cannot drive off road) and I love conservation areas as they allow driving off road--time of the year you're visiting matters more to me then being able to drive off road or not. However when you pick areas that are less traveled you need more time (which most people don't have or are unwilling to do) and you need to be seriously prepared for traveling in these remote areas. Neither of which appeals to the vast majority of people going on safari.
robert_in_ca wrote:
I can tell you that's not the case whatsoever in TZ. Depending on the time of year and the truck you're renting, it's more like $250 per day or more.
Are there any places in TZ that are similar to the conservancies in the Mara? Even if higher end, I'm curious if there's places like Mara North, OMC, Noboisho in TZ that are conservancies with vehicle limits per sighting? How about any places like Amboseli for Elephants in TZ?
A mutual IG follower of mine runs a safari company in TZ. One of the cool things I've learned from them is that it is possible to get out of the car and lay down, water level at Lake Natron. Would make for some beautiful shots of flamingos and other wading birds.
berimbolo wrote:
A mutual IG follower of mine runs a safari company in TZ. One of the cool things I've learned from them is that it is possible to get out of the car and lay down, water level at Lake Natron. Would make for some beautiful shots of flamingos and other wading birds.
Nice, especially if you get to photograph some of that red water. But if you are OCD like most photograpers, flamingos can be very frustrating to shoot. They just rarely line up how you want them and just when one strikes a nice pose another one ruins the shot.
artsupreme wrote:
Nice, especially if you get to photograph some of that red water. But if you are OCD like most photograpers, flamingos can be very frustrating to shoot. They just rarely line up how you want them and just when one strikes a nice pose another one ruins the shot.
The smart thing to do with flamingos is to do a long exposure. Ideally, find a heron or pelican that is stationary and make it the subject, with the flamingos showing motion blur around it.
I usually don't have to rent a vehicle in either TZ or Kenya. I have access to many suitable vehicles, bush planes privately.
If you want a less civilized but authentic old World Safari in Kenya you really need to go North, follow the Tana River, or do Tsavo East.
The Elephants are legendary in Tsavo East. Giant in size and red in color. The diversity in habitat along the Tana river is real old Africa style as is the scenery. So, you have to look for the game, but everything is there. These areas have real wild animals so care must be taken when they are around. No tame animals sitting under your car for shade, no Cheetah sitting on the roof. But a lot of time walking in the bush and dealing with the realities of true African Safari.
Even wilder is the Eastern part of TZ. I have a good friend who has the largest hunting concesion in the East. Even rougher still, but also more rewarding. Those animals are used to being hunted, and behave that way.
But you know there are still corners of even the Mara that are not overrun with tourists. On of my favorites is in the far South East along the Sand River that divides the Southern Mara with the Northern Serengeti. A couple of years ago I spent a week there camping with my Wife. We saw just about every animal you will find in the Mara. Most days we saw no other vehicles as we wandered back and forth across the river into TZ and Kenya (make sure you have the right people to do this as there is no "official" border crossing there).
In short, if you want to invest in setting it up, you can have a very nice, close to wild safari, even in the remote parts of the NPs. Amazingly true even in the Nairobi NP just outside of Karen(where we used to live).
