p.12 #1 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
RichP42 wrote:
There are a lot of features that are tempting me to upgrade (autofocus, articulating screen, sensor dust removal, bulb, focus bracketing, etc) but I can't get over the paltry 7 e-shutter frames per second (for lossless raw images), which is lower than the ten I get with my ancient A7RIII and much much lower than the 20 FPS for the Canon R5. I don't need the A1's 30 fps, but 15 would have been nice! There is currently no mid-range Sony option with the combination of good resolution (> 30 MP) and good frames per second (> 10 e-fps). I suspect the A9III will have that combo but at a high price....Show more →
The slow sensor readout is definitely not great on a new camera at ~$4k
I also can't get over it and convince myself to upgrade from the A7Riii. In addition to the worse DR and noise performance (if the sensor hasn't change since the previous version, will see in the detailed reviews )
p.12 #2 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
It's possible Sony throws more computational/software processing at the files in camera with the new chips, at least for JPEG, that might make the sensor appear improved over the the Riv, but so far it sounds like the sensor itself is the exact same.
I agree about the burst rate and readout speed...simply laughable for the price point.
The more I ponder this camera, the more confused I am.
If all you really need is a landscape/portrait camera, any camera since the Rii will work, with advantage to the Rii/Riii in IQ.
The Riii is capable enough to be the things that the Rv is supposed to excel at, and there are numerous other cameras in this space with other brands that also fulfill this space at half the cost.
The main benefits are quality of life vs actual day to day functionality.
p.12 #3 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Ubiquity99 wrote:
I had a 7D and a 5Dmk3. The shadow banding was the one thing I could never get past with that generation of Canons. It was so bad sometimes. I was so jealous of Nikon and their much cleaner shadows.
Nikon used a two-pronged approach to get better DR and less banding than Canon - baked-in clipping of the black points in their RAW files, and using Sony sensors... but hey, it worked!
p.12 #4 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
chez wrote:
Exactly what would have made you upgrade? What are you expecting in the R6?
I do not expect anything in particular, but something that would make me jealous like 75 to 100 MP sensor, global shutter or some other feature that SONY can come up with that nobody ever dreamed about.
You are right, we are at the point that it is hard to imagine anything better than what is available already. I still use my R2 from time to time, my R4 is so good that I can not think of the time I wished that I had something better.
Perhaps when R6 comes around I wouldn't find anything compelling enough to add it to my collection.
p.12 #5 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
What is the trusted source for DR measurements now a days? DxO, Photons to Photos? Having the a7R III for so long, I haven’t really looked at what sources people use today.
Fboss wrote:
The slow sensor readout is definitely not great on a new camera at ~$4k
I also can't get over it and convince myself to upgrade from the A7Riii. In addition to the worse DR and noise performance (if the sensor hasn't change since the previous version, will see in the detailed reviews )
p.12 #6 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
tsdevine wrote:
What is the trusted source for DR measurements now a days? DxO, Photons to Photos? Having the a7R III for so long, I haven’t really looked at what sources people use today.
The "worse DR" is mostly a bunch of hot air. It varies by the ISO and at low ISO's it's got less than a stop less DR. Absolutely nothing to be wringing hands over, as it outperforms through most of the rest of the ISO range. That said, people will always find something to complain about.
p.12 #7 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
My general impression was that the a7R IV was the slightest of hairs lower than the a7R III and the a1 was slightly lower than the a7R IV, and that was most likely due to the stacked sensor and the push for faster readout (which seems a reasonable trade off given the what the a1 is trying to be.)
And even though it's the same sensor on the a7R V as the a7R IV, there are other off sensor related external components that I assume could impact noise. Will be interesting to see if is exactly the same....or different.
jhapeman wrote:
The "worse DR" is mostly a bunch of hot air. It varies by the ISO and at low ISO's it's got less than a stop less DR. Absolutely nothing to be wringing hands over, as it outperforms through most of the rest of the ISO range. That said, people will always find something to complain about.
p.12 #10 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Fred Miranda wrote:
I have not made up my mind yet. I'm currently shooting with the A7 IV and I am quite impressed.
What does impress you with the A7IV Fred ? Thanks.
Coming from an 7R2, I hesitate between a 7RIV (big price difference in Europe vs RV), the 7RV and 7IV (as 33 MB is not far from the 36MB of Nikon D800 I used to own, just doubtful about the EVF/LCD combo, as I don't find (at least through the Specs) a big enough improvement over the R2. Plus, I am curious to try the Pixelshift feature (so may end-up with simply a 7RIII in the end :-))
"With its brand-new AI-base autofocus and dedicated AI Processor, which Sony says was trained with deep learning techniques, the a7R V now has the best autofocus system in Sony’s lineup by far...The Sony a1 still beats the a7R V in pure capture speed, and the stacked CMOS sensor used in the a1 provides it with faster overall performance. The a1 also has nearly no rolling shutter, but it isn’t the most accurate system in the lineup anymore."
Please don't shoot the messenger.
Regardless of how it stacks ups gainst the A1, it sounds like a great camera. I currently use the R4 and R3, but find the upgrades compelling enough for my uses to order the R5.
The focus system upgrade is huge.
Flippy/tilt screenBulb timer
Focus stacking
Improved sensor cleaning
Shutter closed on off
EVF and LCD
As a R3 and R4 user, I don't see any significant difference in dynamic range or noise between the two, especially if you compensate for file size when comparing noise performance. On paper, the upgrades appear to make the R5 a much more versatile camera than the R3. The changes vs the R4 may not represent as a big a jump, but for me they are significant enough to get me to order one. I imagine they may also make some people question the 60% premium for the A1. Again, on paper. The proof will be in the pudding.
p.12 #12 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
nicephore wrote:
What does impress you with the A7IV Fred ? Thanks.
Coming from an 7R2, I hesitate between a 7RIV (big price difference in Europe vs RV), the 7RV and 7IV (as 33 MB is not far from the 36MB of Nikon D800 I used to own, just doubtful about the EVF/LCD combo, as I don't find (at least through the Specs) a big enough improvement over the R2. Plus, I am curious to try the Pixelshift feature (so may end-up with simply a 7RIII in the end :-))
Before the A7 IV, I had the A7R IV for a while and before that I had the R, R2, R3 and A9.
The A7 IV's AF is more accurate and quicker and the previous R models and almost as good as the A9. Also, 33MP seems to be the sweet spot in resolution for my needs since I dislike cropping. I'm happy with the colors and DR coming out of the A7 IV as well.
p.12 #13 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Before the A7 IV, I had the A7R IV for a while and before that I had the R, R2, R3 and A9.
The A7 IV's AF is more accurate and quicker and the previous R models and almost as good as the A9. Also, 33MP seems to be the sweet spot in resolution for my needs since I dislike cropping. I'm happy with the colors and DR coming out of the A7 IV as well.
I got one and used it for a while and I agree, it's an amazing camera and value for the $$. My nephew now has it and takes remarkable bird photos with it. Is it great for BIF? Not as good as an A9 or A1, but awfully close for the price point.
p.12 #14 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
All this A1 talk in this thread is highlighting how much of a bubble this forum is. It's the perfect mix of working pros and people with money to burn. I bring that up to say, I'm not sure how much we can glean about the greater market from talking to one another here. We all know the market for cameras like this is small, but I do imagine it's comprised of a folks from a wider economic pool than is represented here.
I'm no longer a freelance photographer, haven't been for a few years, so the thought of spending $6.5K on a camera is anathema. Even if I can afford it, I can't justify it. The price tag for the A7R V is still far enough off the A1 (brand new) to make the performance capability differences sensible, but I'd argue Sony has too many cameras in their lineup. I'm starting to feel the artificial segmentation.
My stance is that floor on all of these cameras, specifically those carrying price tags like the A7RV need to be raised significantly. The smartphone is going to continue to eat into the ILC market and companies can't afford to be stagnant. Jobs had the right idea, Apple cannabalized the iPod before they let another company do it. Camera companies need to adapt a similar mindset.
p.12 #15 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Sony did a great job with the "AI-base" and "deep learning" marketing description of the new AF system but we need to see non-bias side by side comparisons for speed and accuracy. I would imagine the dedicated AF processor should make a difference and it should perform better than the A7R IV.
p.12 #16 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
in this video they show some of the AF differences between the A7RIV, RV and Canon R5. After I saw it I thought "ok , now the A7RV is at the same level as the 2y old Canon R5". Some of the objects , like insects, don't seem to work well.
p.12 #18 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Before the A7 IV, I had the A7R IV for a while and before that I had the R, R2, R3 and A9.
The A7 IV's AF is more accurate and quicker and the previous R models and almost as good as the A9. Also, 33MP seems to be the sweet spot in resolution for my needs since I dislike cropping. I'm happy with the colors and DR coming out of the A7 IV as well.
p.12 #19 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
So far I find the A7r5 a compelling upgrade from the a7r4. Being inherently cheap I will either wait till it goes on a good EDU discount or the A1 ii comes out and causes some price disruption. The areas I find most improved:
1. The EVF, this alone merits the upgrade to me. With my glasses and various vision issues the new EVF has the ability to increase the eye relief distance by reducing the image size in the EVF. With the higher magnification the end result is a similar size image compared to the current a7r4 EVF, but I would be able to see the whole frame. Really a game changer for getting good composition.
2. The focus. The verdict is still out for me on this one. My issue with the a7r4 focus is that AF-C is not accurate enough to match the focus to the needs of a 60MP sensor. It is unclear if the focus is CPU limited or sensor readout speed limited or both. It appears this made good progress, but I would like to see a more critical review, or maybe test it myself to really know. The A1 with it's 240Hz focus speed might be needed.
3. Color Science and WB. I have found these to be unacceptable for my taste in the SOOC jpg. Canon seems to do better. I like the new colors and it sounds like WB is better as well. Maybe good enough that I would be happy with SOOC jpg. But, I have gotten in the habit of shooting RAW and I can't see that stopping. So for snapshots I would probably shoot RAW + jpg and not "develop" the raw unless there was a need.
4. Fast CPU. The old cpu did seem too slow for the file size. This should make the camera snappier.
5. Faster storage, out of an abundance of cheapness I would not upgrade to CFA until prices come down. But good option to have.
6. Lossless compression and smaller file choices. Smaller storage is always welcome. The 26MP downsampled is an excellent option and will look great. But after shooting at 60MP, I have really gotten to like the resolution, and not sure I would drop resolution. This is an option I initially wanted, but now I'm not sure.
7. Improved pixel shift, if this is now actually functional that sounds good to me. I would like to see more testing on this. For the landscape people complaining it doesn't have 75-100MP, maybe rethink that point if this now works. The computational photography aspect of this could also make the image competitive with medium format, 16 photos stacked, that sounds like better IQ if the lens is up to the challenge.
8. The focus stacking looks interesting, I wouldn't mind trying that.
9. The 8k video. I always look to the future. That might be excessive now, but if you have some event you know your kids or grandkids will want to watch 20 years from now, that seems good.
I suspect a used or edu a7r5 will remain below the price of a used a1, so I think this will be my next camera at some point.
p.12 #20 · Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
If 8k is important to you whenever you upgrade, make sure to watch some reviews of it. Jordan at DPTV shows that the handheld 8k/24 looks like you're shooting through a wobbling bowl of Jello.
