IMO, it’s a hardware problem. Thankfully, the M11 never appealed to me, and nothing above an M10R ever will.
It’s like when MacBooks had an issue with bad performance due to overheating. So they issued an update that basically turned off the warning and slow down when overheating so that people wouldn’t notice it as much.
Was it a hardware or software issue?
I think, hopefully, the next iteration won’t have these faulty parts and this M11 will be discontinued shortly after the new one comes out. And hopefully the M10R will be made for longer so people have a good alternative to the M11.
If it was me I would jump to M12 for the next Leica M, erase the name M11 from memory, discontinue the M11 immediately after the M12 comes out, and then sell an M12 and bring back the M10R (maybe under a new name). Maybe a massive discount if you trade your M11 for the new M12.
rji2goleez wrote:
And yet, there are many M11s out there (like mine) that have been issue free!
Mine has been issue free as well. I have no explanation for the ones that seem to be having trouble. But, it would be nice to know the reasons for this, as it does cause me some concern that problems may one day show up.
1bwana1 wrote:
Maybe buying a used one with an issue free history would actually be less risky?
Perhaps but it is no guarantee. The new owner might use different functions, perhaps in a different climate, perhaps with other (non-Leica) lenses, etc etc.
SlowDriver wrote:
Not in the market for an M11 but if I were I guess I would be very reluctant to buy a used M11 at this point in time...
Are the issues a combination of firmware and hardware?
1bwana1 wrote:
Maybe buying a used one with an issue free history would actually be less risky?
SlowDriver wrote:
Perhaps but it is no guarantee. The new owner might use different functions, perhaps in a different climate, perhaps with other (non-Leica) lenses, etc etc.
This is why it would be good to know the actual causes of reliability problems.
My M body experience stops at the M240, which is still my main Leica camera. After almost 10 years with it, I still get occasional freezes and lock-ups. More so if using live view. Occasionally I'll lose images, too. Similar happened with the M9, though of course it didn't have live view. There the lockups seemed to coincide with reviewing images while the buffer was still clearing to the card, especially if zooming in on images to check focus. Continuous advance also seemed to be a trigger, or more likely to at least cause image banding.
With my Canon system I've recently transitioned to mirrorless and with those cameras have experienced much more frequent lockups of various kinds compared to my previous DSLRs combined. With one camera I've determined that the eye proximity sensor for switching between the external LCD and EVF displays was one of the triggers, so have disabled auto-switching, which drastically reduced the occurrences of lockups. But didn't completely eliminate them. Which is annoying, of course, when it happens. Just seems that as these systems become computationally more complex, that various bugs and conflicts arise more frequently... Not sure it's worse with Leica than others, but I also don't have an M11 with which to base a user opinion.
rscheffler wrote:
This is why it would be good to know the actual causes of reliability problems.
Exactly, that would give me more long term confidence in the camera and the company.
I still am keeping my well proven M10-P as a backup due to lack of confidence.
The M11 has some idiosyncrasies that I would like more fully explained. Charging through the USB-C cable. Turn the camera on and plug the cable in directly to the wall wart and it charges quickly. Turn the camera off and it charges sometimes. Plug the cable into USB-C on the camera, and a USB slot on computer, turn it on for charging and you end up with a fully discharged battery.
1bwana1 wrote:
Mine has been issue free as well. I have no explanation for the ones that seem to be having trouble. But, it would be nice to know the reasons for this, as it does cause me some concern that problems may one day show up.
You're fortunate in your experience. I decided to stop using the M11 due to its unreliability. My menu choices were straightforward, and I made sure to use compatible memory cards. While some may defend this product, it's essential to be truthful about our individual experiences with it.
Fred Miranda wrote:
You're fortunate in your experience. I decided to stop using the M11 due to its unreliability. My menu choices were straightforward, and I made sure to use compatible memory cards. While some may defend this product, it's essential to be truthful about our individual experiences with it.
Agree 100%, if people aren't truthful when reporting issues then they will never get addressed.
You mention of your menu choices suggests to me that it might be useful for some of us without issues to compare setups with those that have had issues. We might lean something.
If anyone who is having issues would like to do such a comparison I am willing to do the work on my side.
1bwana1 wrote:
Agree 100%, if people aren't truthful when reporting issues then they will never get addressed.
You mention of your menu choices suggests to me that it might be useful for some of us without issues to compare setups with those that have had issues. We might lean something.
If anyone who is having issues would like to do such a comparison I am willing to do the work on my side.
My point is that even after multiple camera resets and using the 'default' menu settings with several known SD card brands including Lexar and Sandisk, my M11 cameras still experienced freezing issues. I believe it is up to Leica to address this problem, but if I had a dependable M11, I would certainly continue using it. Right now, I don't feel comfortable trying another one. I'll wait for the P version instead. I don't want to guess what the problem might be, but to me, it seems to be more than just a software issue. That could explain why there are M11 bodies without major issues.
I am not a pro/heavy user, but zero freezes/issues in 4 months of ownership thus far with my silver M11 (firmware v1.6.1). Keeping fingers crossed :-)
I don't use internal memory and use 128GB Sandisk Extreme Pro V90 300Mpbs SD card. I have only one lens mounted on it thus far, 50mm Summilux (ASPH). The rest of the menu settings are straightforward (nothing fancy or customization as I am new to an M-system). Many QA issues/reports on the web though (and repair delays); not only for M11 but also for recent lens releases. Feels like in need of an introspection at their end.
jigesh wrote:
I am not a pro/heavy user, but zero freezes/issues in 4 months of ownership thus far with my silver M11 (firmware v1.6.1). Keeping fingers crossed :-)
I don't use internal memory and use 128GB Sandisk Extreme Pro V90 300Mpbs SD card. I have only one lens mounted on it thus far, 50mm Summilux (ASPH). The rest of the menu settings are straightforward (nothing fancy or customization as I am new to an M-system). Many QA issues/reports on the web though (and repair delays); not only for M11 but also for recent lens releases. Feels like in need of an introspection at their end....Show more →
Lucky. I’d call myself a power user (full time pro) and had over 10k shots with the M11 last month for assignment work despite lockups. That said, I have no concerns of using the camera for my paid work and have faith this will be fixed permanently.
I have friends with total image loss issues with Canon R5’s, autofocus issues with Sonys, and so on. There’s a lot of tech in cameras (and cars) these days and the first users are always beta testers.
I think it’s a firmware issue (still) but I noticed it happens when waking from a sleep. It has to do with the shutter opening for metering, because even when the battery is pulled while locked up, if you remove the lens, the sensor is exposed. The camera should automatically close the shutter when off or 6-bit lens removed when camera is on.
