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Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


From what I've read online, when you're storing your Leica camera and M lens for a while, it's recommended to avoid extreme temperature changes. This is to prevent the lubricating oil inside the lenss from reaching the aperture blades. Keeping the lens in a cool, dry environment seems to be a good idea to minimize the risk of oil reaching the blades.

I also came across suggestions to close the aperture to a mid-range, like f/5.6. Apparently, this could offer some protection against dust and oil particles. Interestingly, when I bought new M lenses, they were often set to f/4 or f/5.6 from the factory, which might indicate that Leica believes it could be helpful.

Another point I found is that setting the focus distance to infinity is generally recommended. This is said to reduce stress on the focusing mechanism and ensure that the lens elements are positioned naturally.

So, based on what I've read online, maintaining a stable temperature, closing the aperture to a mid-range, and setting focus to infinity seem to align with the consensus and could be good practices for storing your Leica gear..

I'm curious about your practices. Do you agree with the online consensus??




Jan 13, 2024 at 01:19 AM
TibbersGoneWild
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p.1 #2 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


I’d like to add that I like to store my lenses upright and cycle through the lenses and film M cameras every 3 months to prevent the lube from sitting in one place for too long.

As for Lenses stored wide open or stopped down halfway/all the way, I don’t think it’ll affect it much but speculation is that if closed down, existing oil from blade/diaphragm can cause haze in the inner elements, while others state that if stored wide open, oil can spread around the blades/diaphragm. I believe only in extreme temperatures(heat) would cause one or the other issue above.



Jan 13, 2024 at 01:35 AM
stgrove
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p.1 #3 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


I keep my gear in a Ruggard Dry Cabinet, but with lenses laying on their sides. I might never remember to rotate lenses so...

I just wonder if putting them upright would be the better option when concerning grease and all of the above?



Jan 13, 2024 at 09:21 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


I can't speak with any authority on the matter of camera and lenses specifically, but as a reliability / maintenance practice, the issue of maintenance for idle / layup periods is in my wheelhouse.

Gravity redistributing the lubricants might be considered one potential failure mode. That will be a slow time frame, to occur. With my motors that are idle, I rotate the shafts on an annual basis, as a matter of good practice. I don't see the need to rotate lenses on the shelf at three month intervals, but if three months gives you more peace of mind, that's fine too.

If I'm establishing a maintenance strategy for idle lenses (mine don't remain idle that long) in storage / layup (say collector, which I'm not), I'd recommend an annual physical rotation of their orientation. BUT, even more than that ... I'd recommend cycling the aperture throughout its entire range of apertures in both directions, as well as racking the focus through its entire range (mfd - infinity).

In my experience, actuators become impinged with particulates from ambient air, as another failure mode. By cycling the apertures, at an interval which "removes" the impinged particulates while the accumulation is still low and still "soft", aids in the retention of smooth operations when resuming operations from extended periods of non-operation. Impinged contaminants are also points of collection for moisture, which leads to corrosive action.

This is part of the reason why climate controlled cabinets / storage container domes are used. They protect the micron level contaminants from reaching the aperture blades, and settling on them. Ideally, they would be stored in a protective enclosure (individual dome) with caps on, in a cabinet with a positive pressure, HEPA filtered air, to keep ambient particles from entering the cabinet from outside air (due to the higher pressure in the cabinet).

Granted, most folks aren't going to do that. But, the point of particulate matter impinging on the aperture blades is one failure mode that I think few folks will consider. Granted, it takes a long while for that to occur, but it still does happen ... at a rate that is correlated to the air quality of the environment. Keeping a HEPA filter air cleaner in the room which they are stored will serve well for most folks, too.

With a maintenance strategy of cycling the aperture blades and racking the focus, the failure modes of particulate impingement and lubrication redistribution are addressed.

Similarly, for cameras ... cycling of operations should be performed periodically, for similar failure modes of lubrication displacement and particulate impingement / corrosion.

BTW ... if you think this is too small to see, you're right. OTOH, if it gets to a place where you CAN see this ... ummm, too late.

Bear in mind also, that with some lenses ... i.e. floating elements, etc. that there are two sets of helicoids. The pitch of the gearing in those helicoids may vary, as well as the amount of lubrication each uses. So, the rate at which gravity plays on redistribution may vary. Just another data point for cycling through the entire range of focus racking.

And, if we are talking about non-M lenses, some lenses are now using linear focusing rails, you don't want the lens sitting in the same spot forever. That will create that "hitch" in sliding differential. Yet another reason for cycling the lens through full range of focus (lubrication / particle impingement).

As to position, I'd agree with storing in the mid position for aperture, after fully cycling in each direction (and periodic cycling thereafter).

Then, there's also the matter of "oil bleed" that occurs with certain types of lubricants. I think the newer lenses are using lubricants that are less prone to oil bleed (which is where the oil in the grease separates from the binder in the grease), particularly if using more of a fluoro based lubricant (which costs more, etc.). By merely rotating the physical position of the lenses, any of the oil bleed that has occurred remains separated from the binder. By cycling the mechanisms, oil that has "bled out" can be better re-mixed in with the lubricant (i.e. oil and binder), than merely repositioning the lens. I know that Leica has made some changes in the lubricants they use, but I can't specify which / when they made the changes. Also, if a CLA has been done ... which type of lubricant used for the CLA may vary. Cheap grease will bleed out oil faster than good grease, depending on the binder used. Fluoro lubes less so. But, there's the trade-off of "stiffness" in operation vs. oil retention in lubricant manufacturing / application decisions ... always a quid pro quo, kind of thing (I digress).



Lots of "blah, blah" ... to say, simply this:

Keep 'em closed up, in a clean space, the cleaner the better. And, if you haven't already done so ... fondle them fully with love at least once a year.






Edited on Jan 19, 2024 at 07:45 AM · View previous versions



Jan 13, 2024 at 10:28 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #5 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


TibbersGoneWild wrote:
I’d like to add that I like to store my lenses upright and cycle through the lenses and film M cameras every 3 months to prevent the lube from sitting in one place for too long.

As for Lenses stored wide open or stopped down halfway/all the way, I don’t think it’ll affect it much but speculation is that if closed down, existing oil from blade/diaphragm can cause haze in the inner elements, while others state that if stored wide open, oil can spread around the blades/diaphragm. I believe only in extreme temperatures(heat) would cause one or the other issue above.


---------------------------------------------

stgrove wrote:
I keep my gear in a Ruggard Dry Cabinet, but with lenses laying on their sides. I might never remember to rotate lenses so...

I just wonder if putting them upright would be the better option when concerning grease and all of the above?


There isn't a significant consensus whether you store your lenses upright or on their side, so it might not make a big difference. The important thing is to make sure the lens is secure with the caps and won't move around during storage. Using a Ruggard cabinet is a good suggestion, and as mentioned by @TibbersGoneWild, occasionally using the lens (rotating the focusing ring, aperture, etc.) is also recommended to prevent the lubrication from drying.



Jan 13, 2024 at 10:36 AM
cbass
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p.1 #6 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


I do not own any M lenses so keep that in mind. I do own several SLR lenses including Leica R. When it comes to the position of the aperture my understanding is that you want to store the lens with the spring from the aperture not under tension as if the spring is under tension for a long time it can stretch and become less effective. On the SLR lenses that I have taken apart for service (which is very few), the spring is stretched the most when the aperture is wide open and compressed when the aperture is fully stopped down. Thus, the advice I have read is to store those lenses with the aperture fully closed so to not store the spring under tension, which can stretch the spring over time. Of course, if the spring is fully compressed when the lens is wide open then the opposite would be true. I have never looked at an M lens so I do not know if this is also true for a Leica M lens.


Jan 13, 2024 at 02:33 PM
Push1stop
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p.1 #7 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices



cbass wrote:
I do not own any M lenses so keep that in mind. I do own several SLR lenses including Leica R. When it comes to the position of the aperture my understanding is that you want to store the lens with the spring from the aperture not under tension as if the spring is under tension for a long time it can stretch and become less effective. On the SLR lenses that I have taken apart for service (which is very few), the spring is stretched the most when the aperture is wide open and compressed when the aperture is
...Show more

Out of curiosity were the lenses that had weak springs older lenses pre 1980/1990's ?
I'm not a metallurgist but I believe what wears springs out is not from them being stored compressed or fully extended, what wears springs out is the actual act of it being cycled (compressed and released).
My understanding/knowledge comes from my extensive gun smithing courses, tests, and work with springs in that realm... so even tho the apparatus is changed, both firearms and lenses utilize springs. AS LONG AS THEY WERE CORRECTLY HARDENED/MANUFACTURED they should be able to be stored in either position.
We've done tests to see how long a firearms magazine (which is under spring tension) can be stored fully compressing the spring. After 20 years the difference between a new spring and a compressed/stored spring was extremely minimal if at all where as a magazine that was loaded/unloaded over it's lifetime the difference between new and old became much more apparent.



Jan 13, 2024 at 04:52 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #8 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


cbass wrote:
I do not own any M lenses so keep that in mind. I do own several SLR lenses including Leica R. When it comes to the position of the aperture my understanding is that you want to store the lens with the spring from the aperture not under tension as if the spring is under tension for a long time it can stretch and become less effective. On the SLR lenses that I have taken apart for service (which is very few), the spring is stretched the most when the aperture is wide open and compressed when the aperture is
...Show more

Perhaps that's why it's suggested setting the aperture blades at a mid-range, around f/4-5.6. It's a sweet spot – not fully open, and not tightly closed, to avoid putting too much stress on the aperture blades. This mid-range setting also does a good job preventing dust and debris from sneaking into the lens.



Jan 13, 2024 at 05:12 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #9 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


There's also a bit of a debate when it comes to leaving the shutter cocked or uncocked with Leica M film bodies. Some recommend leaving it uncocked when storing the camera for a while, while others argue that it doesn't really matter if the shutter springs are tensed or not. What do you guys think?


Jan 13, 2024 at 05:15 PM
cbass
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p.1 #10 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


Push1stop wrote:
Out of curiosity were the lenses that had weak springs older lenses pre 1980/1990's ?
I'm not a metallurgist but I believe what wears springs out is not from them being stored compressed or fully extended, what wears springs out is the actual act of it being cycled (compressed and released).
My understanding/knowledge comes from my extensive gun smithing courses, tests, and work with springs in that realm... so even tho the apparatus is changed, both firearms and lenses utilize springs. AS LONG AS THEY WERE CORRECTLY HARDENED/MANUFACTURED they should be able to be stored in either position.
We've done tests to see
...Show more

I am not a metallurgist either and I am some random guy on a forum giving out advice for free so that must be taken into consideration. Metal fatigue is another factor, but that's another topic. If you did your own experiments, then you are ahead of me as I never did any such experiments. However, that advice about springs has been consistent from spring manufacturers for whatever purpose they are used whether that is a torque wrench or a lens aperture.

To avoid spring weakening due to creep, minimize stress on your springs whenever possible. Do not leave your springs under constant compression unless this is required for them to do their job. Do not subject them to high temperatures if it can be avoided. If your springs are in conditions that are likely to lead to creep, be sure to check them regularly and replace them when necessary.

Source: https://idcspring.com/spring-lose-tension-when-compressed/

That is one source, but I have seen this general advice everywhere a spring is used. You may be right that it might make little difference if the spring was correctly manufactured and sized for the application.



Edited on Jan 13, 2024 at 05:56 PM · View previous versions



Jan 13, 2024 at 05:42 PM
 


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cbass
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p.1 #11 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


Fred Miranda wrote:
Perhaps that's why it's suggested setting the aperture blades at a mid-range, around f/4-5.6. It's a sweet spot – not fully open, and not tightly closed, to avoid putting too much stress on the aperture blades. This mid-range setting also does a good job preventing dust and debris from sneaking into the lens.


I don't think that whatever position the aperture blades are in would put any tension on the blades themselves. I would have to think about that some more though. I have heard that aperture blades stopped down help reduce oil migration, but I don't know why and have not found an explanation. However, oil on the blades can prematurely wear out an aperture because the tension from the oil especially if the blades are slow or stick can put additional pressure on the pins that typically hold them in place and wear them beyond specs prematurely as you use an aperture.




Jan 13, 2024 at 05:56 PM
cbass
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p.1 #12 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


Humidity is the one thing most people know about, but generally they know that too high humidity is an issue. However, too low humidity is also an issue and can stiffen grease prematurely. The advice to store your lenses with those humidity packets can be a problem if the humidity gets too low. Zeiss recommends humidity of 30-60% with anything under 30% having a negative impact. People do say that 60% is too high, however and better 55% or lower. I used to have a better source for this, but this is the best I can find right now:

https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/us/service/content/fungus-on-lenses.html



Jan 13, 2024 at 06:14 PM
TibbersGoneWild
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p.1 #13 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


Fred Miranda wrote:
There's also a bit of a debate when it comes to leaving the shutter cocked or uncocked with Leica M film bodies. Some recommend leaving it uncocked when storing the camera for a while, while others argue that it doesn't really matter if the shutter springs are tensed or not. What do you guys think?


There was a post on a different forum about storing film cameras uncocked vs cocked. I believe in the thread, someone asked a Leica technician and they said that the tension of an uncocked shutter was never fully at 0% and a cocked shutter was never at 100%, and in fact that it was only 20% or 30% tension difference (uncocked vs cocked) iirc. Anyways, it is true that all new Leica lenses are stopped down to f5.6 or f8, but for film M bodies, I bought many of them new and they came cocked from factory while one or two came uncocked.



Jan 14, 2024 at 05:29 AM
TibbersGoneWild
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p.1 #14 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


cbass wrote:
Humidity is the one thing most people know about, but generally they know that too high humidity is an issue. However, too low humidity is also an issue and can stiffen grease prematurely. The advice to store your lenses with those humidity packets can be a problem if the humidity gets too low. Zeiss recommends humidity of 30-60% with anything under 30% having a negative impact. People do say that 60% is too high, however and better 55% or lower. I used to have a better source for this, but this is the best I can find right now:

https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/us/service/content/fungus-on-lenses.html


I agree, i believe humidity is the number one concern for long term storage then followed by extreme heat (such as over 60 degrees C). I store my lenses and camera bodies in a ruggard dry cabinet and have the humidity set to 45%. As for temperature , I try to keep them between consistently around 19C year round but I don’t have much control during extreme weather such as the current cold snap in Canada. My dry cabinet and external wifi monitor has shown that the dry cabinet temperature has fallen down to 12C even with my heater set to 20C. I wasn’t able to find ideal storage temperature for Leica brand specifically but Nikon and Canon recommends ideal storage temperature anywhere between 0C - 40C.



Jan 14, 2024 at 05:40 AM
stgrove
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p.1 #15 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


Here in FL I decided to set my Ruggard to 45% humidity. Before I set it at 40%. Even now outside humidity is around 70% and it hovers around 90% in the Summer.


Jan 14, 2024 at 10:13 AM
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p.1 #16 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices




Fred Miranda wrote:
---------------------------------------------

There isn't a significant consensus whether you store your lenses upright or on their side, so it might not make a big difference. The important thing is to make sure the lens is secure with the caps and won't move around during storage. Using a Ruggard cabinet is a good suggestion, and as mentioned by @TibbersGoneWild@, occasionally using the lens (rotating the focusing ring, aperture, etc.) is also recommended to prevent the lubrication from drying.



The good news Fred is that you and I live in a Ruggard Dry Cabinet. I prefer to keep my camera equipment and myself in such an enviornment.



Jan 14, 2024 at 10:43 AM
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p.1 #17 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


2c. I read online somewhere relative humidity should be 40-50. Any lower will be too dry from my understanding. So I keep my gear in Pelican cases accompanied by reusable indicating desiccant and a small Bluetooth humidity monitor from Xiaomi. Living in Australia the climate gets quite hot and humid so I check the humidity in the cases on an app on my phone from time to time and replace the desiccant when needed. Often every month or two.

Although the procedure can be tedious I don't really want to go the dry cabinet route in case of breakins.Cases then go in safe for safekeeping.



Jan 19, 2024 at 07:42 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #18 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


mboy wrote:
2c. I read online somewhere relative humidity should be 40-50. Any lower will be too dry from my understanding. So I keep my gear in Pelican cases accompanied by reusable indicating desiccant and a small Bluetooth humidity monitor from Xiaomi. Living in Australia the climate gets quite hot and humid so I check the humidity in the cases on an app on my phone from time to time and replace the desiccant when needed. Often every month or two.

Although the procedure can be tedious I don't really want to go the dry cabinet route in case of breakins.Cases then go
...Show more

Recognizing the humidity as your nemesis ... monitoring and interval change is pragmatic attention to the failure mode.

On a different scale, there are products like "Damp-Aid" or some such thing, that can be place in a room to help draw moisture out of the air, within a room (or cabinet), which also would require periodic changeout, variable to local conditions.

In the Midwest, we swing through humidity quite a bit from season to season.



Jan 19, 2024 at 07:56 AM
stgrove
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p.1 #19 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


I often use a Ruggard #PDC-RD yellow thing which one charges via 120 volt for a few hours and the crystals inside change color from Red to Blue=Ready. It can augment other humidity control measures if gear not in a humidity controlled cabinet.


Jan 19, 2024 at 08:25 AM
MrWolfRangefinder
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p.1 #20 · Storing Your Leica Camera & Lens: Best Practices


"Another point I found is that setting the focus distance to infinity is generally recommended. This is said to reduce stress on the focusing mechanism and ensure that the lens elements are positioned naturally."

Shouldn't be the other way around? In setting to infinity, the lens extends on the back and pushes the finder mechanism (roller) on the camera.

I was under the impression that the lens always has be at the "closest distance" to storage a Leica with a lens attached.

Has anyone heard either version? (trying to make sure now )



Jul 18, 2024 at 12:48 AM
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