Some idea of what to expect from the new Light Lens Lab. Very interesting rendering!
just curious - based on those pictures, how would you compare that images from that lens (and perhaps the upcoming LLL remake) to images from the 50/1.4 pre-asph version 3?
p.4 #5 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
brick33308 wrote:
just curious - based on those pictures, how would you compare that images from that lens (and perhaps the upcoming LLL remake) to images from the 50/1.4 pre-asph version 3?
From what I've seen, the S21 has a unique rendering unlike anything else. It's hard to say how much processing was involved in the images, but I notice decent sharpness, glow, coma, and strong specular highlight outlining. The closest comparison might be earlier lenses like the Leica 50mm f/1.5 Summarit, but its rendering is distinct enough that I could easily tell them apart. The Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Heliar might be a closer match, but I'm not sure. The 50mm f/2 SP2 is a stop slower but also exhibits similar glow and outlining characteristics.
I'd need to test the new S21 alongside these lenses to get a clearer comparison.
As for the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-ASPH (v3), it's far more corrected and sharper than the S21. It has its own unique rendering but is much more tamed in comparison.
p.4 #6 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Now that I've thought it over, the original Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 Prominent from 1951 might have the closest rendering.
Although the Prominent has 7 elements and the S21 is a 6-element lens.
p.4 #7 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Fred Miranda wrote:
From what I've seen, the S21 has a unique rendering unlike anything else. It's hard to say how much processing was involved in the images, but I notice decent sharpness, glow, coma, and strong specular highlight outlining. The closest comparison might be earlier lenses like the Leica 50mm f/1.5 Summarit, but its rendering is distinct enough that I could easily tell them apart. The Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Heliar might be a closer match, but I'm not sure. The 50mm f/2 SP2 is a stop slower but also exhibits similar glow and outlining characteristics.
I'd need to test the new S21 alongside these lenses to get a clearer comparison.
As for the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-ASPH (v3), it's far more corrected and sharper than the S21. It has its own unique rendering but is much more tamed in comparison....Show more →
Yes, very curious if it's different enough from my SP2 to be worth considering. My initial impression is that it looks pretty different but it would definitely be helpful to see side-by-side images.
p.4 #8 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
The original Pierre Angénieux PARIS 50mm F1.5 Type S21 has awsome rendering from that Flickr album--love the pastel color too. Always really enjoy Angenieux photos.
p.4 #9 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Fred, you were spot on. I have seen quite a few A/B comparisons between the original Nokton and the S21, and the bokeh renderings are indeed quite similar. Some other lenses that come close in rendering are Aires Coral 45/1.5 (1958 for the Aires 35-V interchangeable lens rangefinder camera) and Mamiya-Sekor 48/1.5 (the fixed lens for the Mamiya Super Deluxe rangefinder camera). These two also have 7 elements but in different arrangement from Nokton's.
Interestingly, while there were so many classic 6/4 Double Gauss lenses out there, I haven't yet seen one that renders that similarly to the S21. For example, Angeniuex's own S1 50/1.8 also have a 6/4 optical design, but while the bokeh shapes are similar, S1 is much cleaner and less "nisen" in general - its higher performance also confirms it is a better corrected lens.
The S21 rendering might not be everyone's cup of tea, I quite dig it because I have enjoyed the original Nokton so much. I will be considering the Z21 for certain.
p.s. I need to update that Nokton post with more recent pictures
Fred Miranda wrote:
Now that I've thought it over, the original Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 Prominent from 1951 might have the closest rendering.
Although the Prominent has 7 elements and the S21 is a 6-element lens.
p.4 #10 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
sander9t wrote:
Fred, you were spot on. I have seen quite a few A/B comparisons between the original Nokton and the S21, and the bokeh renderings are indeed quite similar. Some other lenses that come close in rendering are Aires Coral 45/1.5 (1958 for the Aires 35-V interchangeable lens rangefinder camera) and Mamiya-Sekor 48/1.5 (the fixed lens for the Mamiya Super Deluxe rangefinder camera). These two also have 7 elements but in different arrangement from Nokton's.
Interestingly, while there were so many classic 6/4 Double Gauss lenses out there, I haven't yet seen one that renders that similarly to the S21. For example, Angeniuex's own S1 50/1.8 also have a 6/4 optical design, but while the bokeh shapes are similar, S1 is much cleaner and less "nisen" in general - its higher performance also confirms it is a better corrected lens.
The S21 rendering might not be everyone's cup of tea, I quite dig it because I have enjoyed the original Nokton so much. I will be considering the Z21 for certain.
p.s. I need to update that Nokton post with more recent pictures
Based on your samples, I almost ended up acquiring the Voigtlander 50/1.5 for Prominent, but the sale didn't go through. Now I'm curious to try the Z21 since it is the first lens that reminds me of that rendering, something I have really enjoyed seeing in your images.
p.4 #11 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
I am glad you like my pictures. I am sure you will come across an original Nokton at some point.
I am curious to see how different the Z21 is from S21 - it is suggested that the Z21 has a larger image circle and even a bit sharper. I hope the rendering is close. Based on limited samples, it appears that is the case.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Based on your samples, I almost ended up acquiring the Voigtlander 50/1.5 for Prominent, but the sale didn't go through. Now I'm curious to try the Z21 since it is the first lens that reminds me of that rendering, something I have really enjoyed seeing in your images.
p.4 #12 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
sander9t wrote:
I am glad you like my pictures. I am sure you will come across an original Nokton at some point.
I am curious to see how different the Z21 is from S21 - it is suggested that the Z21 has a larger image circle and even a bit sharper. I hope the rendering is close. Based on limited samples, it appears that is the case.
Beyond what LLL has already posted, it would be interesting to see a comparison review with the original S21. I'm sure someone will share that soon!
p.4 #14 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
I have owned a copy of the P. Angenieux S21 50 1.5 lens for about 5 years, plus I own numerous copies of Leica's 50 1.4 pre-aspherical Summilux and they are extremely different lenses. Out of all my lenes the S21 is my favorite lens by a measure as the colors it produces are pastel in tone and for lack of a better word very "French". Also the out of focus rendering is utterly magical and can be made to be even more unique in post processing. As for sharpness, on center it is more than sharp for portrait work, specific items and even landscape.
The Leica 50 1.4 pre-asph is one my my favorite Leica lenses and in 50mm it is tied with the original 50 E58 F1 Noctilux, but the small size and in the case of the titanium copy 50 1.4 pre I have in is of brass construction is beautifully made.
The S21 is extremely well made and the glass is not prone to fog or haze and most copies are quite usable. The used prices for good copies of an original S21 is over $12,000 USD and up so if LLL can re-produce this lens and it renders even close to the output of the original then I would bet many copies will be sold, or at least I hope so.
Will the matte black version be available at some point in the future? Personally, I really prefer the glossy black paint, but I imagine those with matte black cameras might like a matching matte finish instead.
p.4 #18 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Looks like the new Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 "Z21" will be available to order at PopFlash by the end of this week. The price is $1,288.00. (No affiliation)
p.4 #20 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
My guess: while buying from the LLL website may ship to the US from the North American distributor in Canada, LLL lenses are made in China and will be subject to whatever tariff is in place at the time of order for goods of Chinese origin. I believe the current tariff is 30% during a 90-day 'truce' of the ongoing trade war between the USA and China. If so, that would appear to account for the price difference.
