I feel like the $$$mart move here would be to introduce this with updated lenses incorporating a new “advanced digital rangefinder coupling”. They wouldn’t even need to change the lenses beyond squeezing in the sensors and electronic contacts needed to pass aperture and focusing information, keeping the mechanical rangefinder for backwards compatibility. The new contacts would improve metering, exif data, etc. and encourage the upgrade path for future models with ibis, better focusing aids, etc. that “need” the electronic contacts from that “advanced digital rangefinder coupling”.
The viewfinder images in the rumors are mockups and the ones showing frame lines suggest an overlay on an OVF of the TTL focus info. A hybrid viewfinder like the x100 or x-pro would be great….
For the M11-V, we might see just a Visoflex implementation as @tzhang4284 suggested but hopefully we get a bit more. Would be interesting to see the real RF mechanism coupled and I’d love to see a calibration mode for the RF.
A digital representation of the RF patch could be made more visible than the regular patch in the OVF.
wolfloid wrote:
There are so many positive elements that this camera could have - but, of course, it will not have them all. The split image that the rumour reveals as a possible focusing aid option, must come from two different perspectives - that would suggest at least a minimal separate rangefinder window. In the absence of front of camera images, we’ll have to wait and see whether that has actually been implemented.
It could also have a tilt screen (heaven forbid!) for more versatility, IBIS (we can dream), and a panoramic 65x24 framing option (so cheap and easy to implement, so why not?) for a petite and very versatile digital X-pan experience. So many possibilities!...Show more →
If this camera ends up having a really good MF assist tools, a very good EVF (1.0x magnification?), IBIS AND the Xpan crop, I‘ll be in deep trouble. Getting a bonus payment next week.. 😬
IBIS will be a M12 thing, I would say 0% chance that comes in the current body and that is something unique they can throw in a new rangefinder to entice you to upgrade from an M11. I think that will require a rework on the innards of the body that will require a slight change in design on the boards, etc.
I think the way this M11-V gets them the most hype, is a way to assist in focusing longer/fast glass. 50 f/1.4/1.2/0.95, 75 f/2 and faster, 90 f/2.8 and faster….if they can find a way that increases accuracy, specifically on longer lenses, substantially over a rangefinder they will have a lot of us itching to *upgrade*. Otherwise, why bother putting out another $9,200+ camera that will utilize the same sensor and get me the same results my current one has? I can focus anything f/1.4 from 50mm and below with 95% accuracy and would have no desire to add an M11-V to the stable
I don’t think you are getting enough sales from non-Leica enthusiasts even with an EVF, you need to find out what your current customers need at this point. Fuji owners aren’t going to come over in droves now that Leica has just an EVF, price is still quite the barrier. Need to find out what will drive more sales with the current customers base. If we already shoot rangefinders we obviously *like* that process and aren’t needing an EVF
LBJ2 wrote:
I guess the M11-P currently priced at $9,195.00 is a good ballpark +. But not less. Some
If the price is not less than the current rangefinder version, this camera would likely be dramatically more profitable for Leica to produce given the higher cost of manufacturing and precisely calibrating a traditional rangefinder mechanism vs plopping an EVF into the body. Some might even call it a "cash grab" though I'm sure it will be very popular.
Mar 23, 2025 at 07:21 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
Andrew CD wrote:
This, for me, is the $64,000 question. Is it TTL only, or does it also use the RF coupling.
More specifically — and assuming that these images are accurate:
How do the frame lines work?
If it is purely TTL and the frame lines are showing what will be captured, where does the portion of the image that’s outside of the frame lines come from? Moreover, the second RF patch shows it to be out of focus. If that’s so, how come the face looks just as in focus as the one that is (with what looks like focus peaking)?
So I suppose it’s even possible that the images that have frame lines are being taken from an RF window, with focus peaking being superimposed from analysing a TTL image within the frame lines. Or is that too convoluted for words?
A rangefinder by any other name perhaps, I just hope that name isn’t Frankenfinder ….
It will be interesting to see how it deals with focus shift, anyway. Long live Sonnars! ...Show more →
You can have an EVF and have frame lines. Sony already does that. Here is a link:
The catch is that they are only useful for cropping. With Sony they are custom, so you can make them for any crop you want, but I could see on a Leica M11-V, let's say you mount a 21mm lens, you get frame lines that show a crop for 28mm and 35mm, or you mount a 28mm and you get frame lines that show a crop for 35mm and 50mm, or you could mount a 50mm and get frame lines for 75mm and 90mm. I think such frame lines would be useful on a Leica M11V, but they wouldn't work quite the same as frame lines on a rangefinder and you couldn't see more of the scene than the image is projecting on the sensor. Still, if you are ok with a bit of cropping (and that is a big if) you could always shoot a wider lens, see more of the scene and have frame lines to help you crop to your desired frame.
Mar 23, 2025 at 07:24 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
I was one who poo pooed the suggestion that Leica would make this camera. Looks like I was wrong. Now that we see the rumor and the details and it is a variant of the Leica M11, so not an alternative that could be a replacement, I think this could really work for Leica. It satisfies those who want an EVF camera, but it doesn't require an overhaul of the system. You don't need to add contacts to the lenses--in fact, you don't need to change the lenses at all. The camera body changes a bit, but not much and mostly they are just dropping in an EVF to replace the rangefinder.
They can get a few more sales of another variant and in the variant schem--it can replace the R variant which really isn't needed (what would it even be?) for a 60mm camera. They can keep this camera simple and clean. Just a Leica 11P with a builtin EVF, and a simple EVF without much else (maybe the frame lines I suggested above, maybe a simple focus aid, but nothing complex, no PDAF based focus aid that would require a different sensor, maybe just focus peaking and magnification). It would work like and perhaps simply be building in the Visoflex 2 EVF into the camera and ditching the mechanical rangefinder. I hope they do a bit more than that, but even if they don't some people want this camera enough that they will still sell quite a few, or at least that is my guess.
wolfloid wrote:
My experience of this in the X100 series is that it is functionally abysmal, so I hope Leica makes great improvements.
My X-Pro 3 (pre- M240) wasn't that good either.
Figuring out a new way to incorporate an overlay / patch / insert / etc. is yet to be seen. My fav from the old 100% silver mirror days was a plain ground glass, seconded by the split ring / microprism. Digital has never been able to replicate that experience. It would be very cool if they have figured out something to replicate either of those.
The X Pro 3 tried ... but, it just wasn't up to snuff. One can hold out hope (just not your breath) that Leica can raise the bar in a better experience there.
If ... even then ... it would seem to need a different body. I think the M240 body is thick enough, but to house IBIS with a re-engineering. But, if we take a look at most IBIS bodies, they require extra wiggle room vs. their (similar model design) counterparts.
But, I think it is pretty safe to suggest it WON'T be in an M11 body.
some people want this camera enough that they will still sell quite a few, or at least that is my guess.
Aging demographics will sell enough. Tired eyes aren't going away anytime soon. Those of us who are so blessed that our eyes do wonderful with traditional RF, can't understand the impact of experience this can make for lovers of the M body form factor, but whose body parts aren't playing along as nicely as they once did.
Imo, there will always be a perpetual market for this camera (even if only to a remnant vs. majority of M shooters).
Folks who like shooting lenses that have strong focus shift manners will likely be appreciative, as well.
My fav from the old 100% silver mirror days was a plain ground glass, seconded by the split ring / microprism. Digital has never been able to replicate that experience. It would be very cool if they have figured out something to replicate either of those.
Yes, indeed. Nothing I have ever seen or used has ever matched my Pentax LX, with the expensive SC69 upgrade focusing screen for brightness, clarity or speed and accuracy of focus. If only that very intuitive and reliable experience could be matched.
If ... even then ... it would seem to need a different body. I think the M240 body is thick enough, but to house IBIS with a re-engineering.
I suspect that is correct. Yet how did Fuji manage with the X100VI? Hardly any thicker than the already slim X100V, or indeed how did Sony manage with the A7CR? Exceptional achievements!
Steve Spencer wrote:
I was one who poo pooed the suggestion that Leica would make this camera. Looks like I was wrong. Now that we see the rumor and the details and it is a variant of the Leica M11, so not an alternative that could be a replacement, I think this could really work for Leica. It satisfies those who want an EVF camera, but it doesn't require an overhaul of the system. You don't need to add contacts to the lenses--in fact, you don't need to change the lenses at all. The camera body changes a bit, but not much and mostly they are just dropping in an EVF to replace the rangefinder.
They can get a few more sales of another variant and in the variant schem--it can replace the R variant which really isn't needed (what would it even be?) for a 60mm camera. They can keep this camera simple and clean. Just a Leica 11P with a builtin EVF, and a simple EVF without much else (maybe the frame lines I suggested above, maybe a simple focus aid, but nothing complex, no PDAF based focus aid that would require a different sensor, maybe just focus peaking and magnification). It would work like and perhaps simply be building in the Visoflex 2 EVF into the camera and ditching the mechanical rangefinder. I hope they do a bit more than that, but even if they don't some people want this camera enough that they will still sell quite a few, or at least that is my guess....Show more →
I’m not convinced that this will be a „minimal effort“ play by Leica, with minimal changes to the M11. I think it’s more likely to be called M11-V to make clear that it’s not a successor and not meant to replace the true rangefinder.
But introducing an M with just an EVF is such a significant step for Leica that I think they will try to get it right and that means more changes. 100% will there be PDAF based tools and it’s also not really a big deal for them given the existence of the Q3 and SL3 sensor and processors. The body design (not general shape but internal layout and tooling for the smaller external changes) will have to change anyway.
If the leaked screenshots are correct and they remove the physical buttons from the rear, it suggests Leica might be trying to aim for a more simplified experience similar to the TL and (sort of) Sigma BF. We‘ll see.
After checking the body depth of the M11 compared to the Sony A7Cr I agree that IBIS is unlikely as the Leica is very slim given its longer flange distance. They‘d probably have to ditch the mechanical shutter to not increase depth too much, and they won’t do that until they move to a fast enough stacked sensor at some point.
Disagree with the suggested price at M11-P level. More likely that this will be the „entry level“ M and fall between the Q3 and M11 in terms of price. Can’t go too far below the M11 as Leica will want to remain indifferent regarding cannibalising itself, i.e. the M11-V should have a similar or rather better profit margin (which it should as it’s much easier to build).
If the leaked screenshots are correct and they remove the physical buttons from the rear, it suggests Leica might be trying to aim for a more simplified experience similar to the TL and (sort of) Sigma BF. We‘ll see.
They might, and it might turn out to be that, but I sincerely hope not. Touch screens are a fiddly pain in the a*s*, a make cameras too close to the interface of an iPhone, which might suit gen Z users but not more traditionally oriented users. Touch screens also require you to look - so stupid - when we can master well-thought-out buttons/levers/dials without looking. Touch screens are ergonomically primitive and awkward, often giving rise to unintended changes, buttons are ergonomically far more intuitive, surer, and faster.
RustyBug wrote:
My X-Pro 3 (pre- M240) wasn't that good either.
Figuring out a new way to incorporate an overlay / patch / insert / etc. is yet to be seen. My fav from the old 100% silver mirror days was a plain ground glass, seconded by the split ring / microprism. Digital has never been able to replicate that experience. It would be very cool if they have figured out something to replicate either of those.
The X Pro 3 tried ... but, it just wasn't up to snuff. One can hold out hope (just not your breath) that Leica can raise the bar in a better experience there....Show more →
I’m also a big fan of the old microprism etc setup, but I must admit that when I scan those old negatives some are not as sharp as I’d like them to be.
I am guessing that this camera will have electronic lens coupling for future use. Personally, I feel that keeping the RF coupling in an EVF camera kind of defeats it purpose. Many of us find the RF system of focussing not to our liking. It's not a bad system, just not to our liking. Leica has recognized this and the EVF may help drive new sales!
I welcome this camera, and I hope that Leica offers lots of choices in the viewfinder, along with the ability to pick and choose what I want to use. If future lenses are electronically coupled, even better. Lastly, stabilization would be nice, even if the body was thicker.
Andrew CD wrote:
This, for me, is the $64,000 question. Is it TTL only, or does it also use the RF coupling.
More specifically — and assuming that these images are accurate:
How do the frame lines work?
If it is purely TTL and the frame lines are showing what will be captured, where does the portion of the image that’s outside of the frame lines come from? Moreover, the second RF patch shows it to be out of focus. If that’s so, how come the face looks just as in focus as the one that is (with what looks like focus peaking)?
So I suppose it’s even possible that the images that have frame lines are being taken from an RF window, with focus peaking being superimposed from analysing a TTL image within the frame lines. Or is that too convoluted for words?
A rangefinder by any other name perhaps, I just hope that name isn’t Frankenfinder ….
It will be interesting to see how it deals with focus shift, anyway. Long live Sonnars! ...Show more →
There are no framelines. Or outside FL viewing. It's exactly like the VF2 on the M11. Hopefully with pip focusing and a higher res EVF. It is a manual focus mirrorless camera.
EVF's have no issues with focus shift. One of the advantages. Think like the Fuji XE cameras with no AF.
If it has pip focusing I'm in. Otherwise not so sure. Wouldn't say no to brass gloss paint either but that won't happen. It needs to be good for focusing otherwise the XPro4/XE5 will eat it alive. 40MP is all most need/want anyway.
It could easily offer a choice of PIP, simulated RF patch or peaking etc... I also agree with a previous poster, the Canon implementation is very good.
So curious what the front of the camera will look like. Hopefully they do a better job with the empty corner than Fuji has done with the GFX100RF, which looks empty and awkward.
Mar 23, 2025 at 10:31 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
fjablo wrote:
I’m not convinced that this will be a „minimal effort“ play by Leica, with minimal changes to the M11. I think it’s more likely to be called M11-V to make clear that it’s not a successor and not meant to replace the true rangefinder.
But introducing an M with just an EVF is such a significant step for Leica that I think they will try to get it right and that means more changes. 100% will there be PDAF based tools and it’s also not really a big deal for them given the existence of the Q3 and SL3 sensor and processors. The body design (not general shape but internal layout and tooling for the smaller external changes) will have to change anyway.
If the leaked screenshots are correct and they remove the physical buttons from the rear, it suggests Leica might be trying to aim for a more simplified experience similar to the TL and (sort of) Sigma BF. We‘ll see.
After checking the body depth of the M11 compared to the Sony A7Cr I agree that IBIS is unlikely as the Leica is very slim given its longer flange distance. They‘d probably have to ditch the mechanical shutter to not increase depth too much, and they won’t do that until they move to a fast enough stacked sensor at some point.
Disagree with the suggested price at M11-P level. More likely that this will be the „entry level“ M and fall between the Q3 and M11 in terms of price. Can’t go too far below the M11 as Leica will want to remain indifferent regarding cannibalising itself, i.e. the M11-V should have a similar or rather better profit margin (which it should as it’s much easier to build). ...Show more →
A lot of wishful thinking here, IMO. My own take is almost no chance of PDAF based focus aids. If they do PDAF focus aids like Nikon and Canon, then they need to add contacts to the lens. Could they do it another way? Perhaps, but that is a big endeavor and a lot to work out. I don't see them doing that.
I can't see this being cheaper than a standard M11 either. Leica just doesn't do that with variants. Remove the LCD screen, still the same price. Yeah they could lower the price, but Leica has always taken higher profits rather than lowered prices when production costs drop with a variant.
I could see more use of the touchscreen. If the leaked images are correct then they got rid of the ISO dial and that would be presumably be available through the touchscreen. The touchscreen might also be used for selecting the magnification spot and activating magnification. Maybe it already does that in the M11 and maybe even the M10P. I have only had a vanilla M10 and it didn't have a touchscreen.
It will be interesting what this camera has and does not have. Especially how good the EVF is. Will it be a better EVF than the external Visoflex 2? Will it be higher resolution? Will it have better optics? I think that is the crucial question really. If the EVF is better than the Visoflex 2, then I can see quite a few Leica M shoots buying one.
