p.1 #2 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
If the first batch should have been delivered in September as stated in offering there must be users out there, perhaps some forum members. They have apparently sold out the first run(s) lens- so I am curious if anyone has taken delivery and has usage review/comments. There are two pre-release youtube reviews the Analogue Insights and Mr. Leica had an early look.
p.1 #4 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
Desmolicious wrote:
GBP 2750.
Dang.
Yes but much cheaper than the 800k$ 35/1.4 Fred posted yesterday, hah!
It is in the Leica zone, or about 2X the new LLL 35 mm AA... check out the link on eBay for the new DK optics
on Leica Rumors... I dont know if that is the real final price of the DK or someone flipping early but it is an ouch price of 3K GBP as well
It seems to me there should be some users, not reviewers, who have their lenses so just curious of what they think
p.1 #8 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
It still undercuts what Leica would probably charge. Maybe.
Their asking price is the reality of the market. Likely extremely low projected volume, made from the ground up and not in China. Whoever is making it, not unreasonably, probably wants a decent profit. It's also a floating element design, which is unique for a Sonnar, I believe. It seems to me that some actual work has been put into rebuilding this design to achieve modern performance expectations and isn't a 'simple' replica.
Their webpage is quite informative and momentarily diverging along another tangent, it confirmed a small detail that was claimed to be the case here on the forums many years ago, but was also shot down by some vocal individuals in disagreement. I'm referring to why the Leica 50 Lux ASPH v1 has a ninja star aperture opening in the mid-range. Indeed, that lens has well controlled focus shift because it's also FLE, but it I have still seen indications of very minor shift if very carefully examining images made under certain scenarios. Therefore, the long ago claim by a forum member here that the ninja star shape was to help reduce focus shift, is apparently true.
The following reference to the Bertele should also be applicable to lenses such as the 50 Lux ASPH:
"The post war Oberkochen designed variants of these lenses began to utilize a ninja-star shaped aperture blade system, which would permit some of the outer element aberrations from being fully suppressed as the iris was closed down, thus resulting in a reduced effective focal length recompilation effect. As such, a slight focus shift reduction was present on the Oberkochen variants when compared to the circular bladed versions of the Jena variant."
p.1 #10 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
Even if we assume this is one of the best replica lenses ever made, true to the original optics and design, and built with tight tolerances so everything is perfectly aligned for rangefinder use, the real question is… are you really going to drop £2,750 (about ~$3,600) just to find out?
With so many great 50mm options out there (with modern and vintage Sonnar designs), that's a serious gamble unless they're keeping production super limited and aiming it at collectors or die-hard fans chasing that classic Ludwig Bertele "Sonnar" look.
That said, I'll admit I'm not familiar with this particular lens or its designer, so maybe I'm missing something here..
p.1 #14 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
bjhurley wrote:
Wow, I'm a Sonnar fan but those sample images don't seem like anything special to me.
That article is a review I would think the first group of customers would have theirs with the projected September delivery and so far no one has posted anything, I was hoping to prompt that if the lens is indeed in the hands of customers.
p.1 #15 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
First batch apparently is sold out.
The examples look fine to me. But I wouldn’t have been able to say ‘did you use a Bertele lens to take that pic?’. Which really is on me!
Dislikes apart from price? The veiling haze and lack of sharpness at wide apertures that was mentioned. The exposed helicoil - weird. The aperture ring that moves with the focus ring. And frankly it is an ugly looking lens! Yes, I am shallow like that.
If I had unlimited fundage, then sure I would add one to the collection.
p.1 #16 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
bjhurley wrote:
Wow, I'm a Sonnar fan but those sample images don't seem like anything special to me.
I agree about the review images. Some of it is simply the large number of stopped down landscape type shots. The wide open shots either have a ton of processing applied that hides the Sonnar rendering nuances, or it's just not the kind of scene or image content that shows off Sonnar rendering.
Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing more images from others. Wondering if LUF might be a better location to find some, eventually.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Even if we assume this is one of the best replica lenses ever made, true to the original optics and design, and built with tight tolerances so everything is perfectly aligned for rangefinder use, the real question is… are you really going to drop £2,750 (about ~$3,600) just to find out?
With so many great 50mm options out there (with modern and vintage Sonnar designs), that's a serious gamble unless they're keeping production super limited and aiming it at collectors or die-hard fans chasing that classic Ludwig Bertele "Sonnar" look.
That said, I'll admit I'm not familiar with this particular lens or its designer, so maybe I'm missing something here.....Show more →
They need to send you a review copy. Even if you don't like it in the end. Just so we know.
On the surface it's 'just' a 50/2 and as you say, there are a lot (A LOT) of 50mm options for Leica in this range (and faster).
But it's a Sonnar. And from what I gather, it's the Ur-Sonnar (original design). I love the 'Sonnar look' and would be all over this. But yes, the price is not justifiable for me.
I will commend the creators though for the very interesting floating group design that apparently is tied directly to the aperture setting. This is like FLE on steroids because it tweaks FLE in accordance to the actual aperture setting to totally mitigate focus shift. IMO this is super interesting and innovative. I don't think I've ever heard of a lens design that does this, let alone a purely mechanical one (it might happen with mirrorless lens designs and we just don't know about it).
p.1 #18 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
After seeing the YouTube reviews last year I joined the initial rush and got batch two order in just missing first batch. I like the look on film so I think it will suit me I will see next late spring summer to give it my own test assessment but looking at all of this I think I am going to like it.
p.1 #19 · Skyllaney / Omnar "Bertele" 50/2 Sonnar lens with a floating lens block (FLB)
bjhurley wrote:
Wow, I'm a Sonnar fan but those sample images don't seem like anything special to me.
rscheffler wrote:
I agree about the review images.
I look forward to seeing more images from others.
As usual we can count on Bastian to produce an excellent set of review images. And indeed, his images very nicely show off the classic Sonnar rendering of this lens.
And his review touches on who would really benefit from this lens: non-mirrorless/live view shooters. IOW, anyone who likes shooting Sonnars slightly stopped down on digital rangefinders using the traditional rangefinder patch for focusing, rather than live view. Film shooters will also benefit, though it's unclear (to me) how noticeable Sonnar focus shift is on film if viewed at regular print sizes (4x6 or 5x7").
Even if you don't like it in the end. Just so we know.