bwcolor wrote:
Looks promising, but importation to U.S. for items under $800 is now very confusing.
I was thinking the same thing. They are selling 100' rolls but who knows what that will come out to be when it gets here despite it being a US made product! I need to go around and chase some local film makers in Hollywood now and get them to put my on their next supply order lol.
tile_86 wrote:
Have any of the film repackagers made comments about this? Thinking this'd have a big impact on their market, as it removes the delineation between ECN-2 and C41 processing, and companies like Cinestill could no longer hold a better market position with higher remjet removal quality controls.
My understanding is that Kodak has moved away from all retail sales of 35mm cinema film. You can find AHU on B&H for example but not in anything larger than 16mm. It's all direct sales from Kodak Professional now. This makes me believe that a re-spool company has to have large enough purchasing power for what is probably their minimum order. But that's mainly speculation.
What is interesting is that I have heard no announcement from Cinestill about anything either.
ottokbre wrote:
I was thinking the same thing. They are selling 100' rolls but who knows what that will come out to be when it gets here despite it being a US made product! I need to go around and chase some local film makers in Hollywood now and get them to put my on their next supply order lol.
My understanding is that Kodak has moved away from all retail sales of 35mm cinema film. You can find AHU on B&H for example but not in anything larger than 16mm. It's all direct sales from Kodak Professional now. This makes me believe that a re-spool company has to have large enough purchasing power for what is probably their minimum order. But that's mainly speculation.
What is interesting is that I have heard no announcement from Cinestill about anything either. ...Show more →
Isn’t this a pretty big step backwards for Cinestill. Their claim to fame here was their ability to cleanly remove a layer that isn’t present straight from the manufacturer with the new AHU film.
misteracng wrote: http://35mmdealer.de/
I have ordered twice, it took about 7-10 days total to arrive for me. Yes these vision stocks especially now without remjet are excellent. I personally was not a huge fan of the halation look. So this is the way to go.
I sent an EMail regarding selling without VAT and shipping to U.S.. This was their response:
“ Unfortunately I cant send film (except 30m) to the US, because DHL suspended operations. I can’t deduct VAT.
bwcolor wrote:
Isn’t this a pretty big step backwards for Cinestill. Their claim to fame here was their ability to cleanly remove a layer that isn’t present straight from the manufacturer with the new AHU film.
I would counter that their other claim to fame is some sort of relationship with Kodak. The 400D seems to have always been a Vision film with the remjet layer omitted from production altogether. I guess I just assumed that they bought enough supply to have warranted a special production run. But who really knows. They haven't announced 800T w/o halation. Something a certain market segment likes.
Cinestill gets custom production from Kodak. 50D/400D/800T are produced without remjet for Cinestill, they haven't had to remove the remjet themselves for several years. The switch from remjet to AHU won't affect Cinestill because they get their custom orders, but it will affect their direct competitors (ReflxLab, Candido, etc) as they will no longer be able to source the remjet 500T to convert.
PSA: I've been told that dirtcheapfilm will have some 250D AHU in stock next week. They have a limited supply coming in. I have plenty of 250D so I'm not in the market for it, but maybe you are.
oscartb wrote:
Cinestill gets custom production from Kodak. 50D/400D/800T are produced without remjet for Cinestill, they haven't had to remove the remjet themselves for several years. The switch from remjet to AHU won't affect Cinestill because they get their custom orders, but it will affect their direct competitors (ReflxLab, Candido, etc) as they will no longer be able to source the remjet 500T to convert.
They actually do remove the remjet themselves, they operate out of Kodaks campus in Rochester. This shows some aspects of their operation there. They're effectively a contractor for Kodak to do remjet removal and modify their cine films for still photography use, as it means Kodak doesn't have to deal with the overhead costs of setting up a separate production process themselves. That's why I'm very curious to see how long this special relationship lasts; looking at some of the Kodak write-ups on how the AHU will work, it's very different from how remjet is added to film. The AHU is actually incorporated beneath the emulsion layers rather than coated onto the base layer, so Cinestill has nothing for their removal process to actually remove - if they're selling anything in the future, it's going to be straight motion picture film. And for a multitude of reasons, I have a very hard time imagining Kodak is going to enable a middleman to re-sell their own products without any modifications and be a direct C-41 competitor.
tile_86 wrote:
They actually do remove the remjet themselves, they operate out of Kodaks campus in Rochester. This shows some aspects of their operation there. They're effectively a contractor for Kodak to do remjet removal and modify their cine films for still photography use. And for a multitude of reasons, I have a very hard time imagining Kodak is going to enable a middleman to re-sell their own products without any modifications and be a direct C-41 competitor.
I have heard directly from management at Kodak that film is produced sans-Remjet on custom order for Cinestill by Eastman. While it is true that Cinestill started out removing the remjet themselves (and consequently their not infrequent production issues in the earlier 2010s), they've been custom ordering from Eastman for several years.
As to Eastman Kodak allowing C41 competitors to Kodak Alaris, look no further than Lomo color negative, Fujifilm 200/400, and the plethora of AeroColor IV on the market all directly competing with Alaris.
oscartb wrote:
I have heard directly from management at Kodak that film is produced sans-Remjet on custom order for Cinestill by Eastman. While it is true that Cinestill started out removing the remjet themselves (and consequently their not infrequent production issues in the earlier 2010s), they've been custom ordering from Eastman for several years.
As to Eastman Kodak allowing C41 competitors to Kodak Alaris, look no further than Lomo color negative, Fujifilm 200/400, and the plethora of AeroColor IV on the market all directly competing with Alaris.
Oh interesting! I guess Cinestill just does repackaging and maybe edge details during their time in Rochester then. I get your point on the other films, I thought about those but wasn't sure if Kodak saw those as different given they're not cine stocks.
Yes, it's my understanding that Kodak has no more allegiance to Alaris than it does any other B2B partner. Truly different companies. Again, the point I was making is it seems you can no longer buy 35mm Vision through a retail distributor.
So, we might see B2B partners marketing C-41 Vision3 35mm/120 products for the still film market. That would mean competition and lower prices. There really isn’t a downside here for Kodak, unless their contract with Alaris prohibits such association.
I just looked up the Kodak price sheet and there isn't a minimum order, so my point about retail sales is moot since you can just get a single reel from them.
bwcolor wrote:
And what retail site do you order this reel of film from?
AFAIK only direct from Kodak Professional.
You can only get 16mm or smaller formats (8mm) from retailers. The only exception is Korak Vision Print film in 1,000' which is like ISO 3.
So smallest option is 400' from Kodak which works out to about 72 rolls at $4.40 a 35exp roll in just film.
RE: my moot point - I assumed wrong that you had to buy a movie production's worth of film (32k feet is about the minimum amount for a budget feature film in 35mm) for them to sell it to you and that would prevent the cottage industry of film re-spoolers. But clearly that is wrong if they can just buy a single 400' rolls directly from Kodak.
I was told by a manager at Kodak Alaris that Eastman is poorly equipped to handle small volume orders, and part of the reason they quashed direct ordering of 35mm for non-movie uses was to reduce the amount of small orders they had to fulfill. Supposedly small orders had small to nonexistent margins.
Obviously there are probably some scale economics for Eastman that come from delivering a couple pallets of film as opposed to packaging and shipping single reels, but I do suspect I was getting the "company line" from Alaris about the situation (not hard to theorize for why Alaris might want respoolers out of business).
So, I’m a bit confused. Will Kodak Professional sell a single roll of Vision3 AHU to individuals not associated with a commercial entity? Please post when after you purchase, or attempt to purchase. I would do this myself, except that I’ve never shot Vision3 and am awaiting the delivery of my first six rolls of the previous version of 50D. So, I won’t attempt purchase until I know if I might shoot this vs. Portra 160. I understand that ECN-2 results might differ from C-41 with AHU.
bwcolor wrote:
Will Kodak Professional sell a single roll of Vision3 AHU to individuals not associated with a commercial entity?
No, they absolutely will not. "Kodak Professional" is a brand name belonging to Kodak Alaris, a separate company owned by a PE firm, that has the exclusive rights to market and distribute "Kodak" branded film for still photography. They have nothing to do with Vision3 film at all and do not sell it.
Vision3 is made and sold by Kodak Eastman, a publicly traded company that produces film in Rochester for the motion picture market (Vision3) as well as under contract for a variety of brands (Cinestill, Lomography, Kodka Alaris, etc). Kodak Eastman sells Vision3 film for use in motion picture films, in cans of 400ft or longer. They currently sell 35mm motion picture film exclusively to motion picture productions.
You can purchase single 36 exposure rolls of Vision3 from many small respoolers who are bulk loading Vision3 film.
