p.2 #1 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Fred Miranda wrote:
I will be upgrading my iPhone 12 mini with the new 17 Pro. Excited to see what it can do for my photography.
What do you all think about starting a new FM board called "Smartphone Photography"?
Smartphones are insanely capable these days...they offer multiple lens options, RAW processing, and clever algorithms. Maybe it's time for a dedicated space?
Let me know your thoughts!
Woah, nice, I'm still rocking the 13 Mini. The only phone right now that looks appealing is the Air. Or something that I've been waiting for is a phone with a keyboard and there is a new one now from Unihertz that reminds me of the BlackBerry Passport, my favorite phone I've ever used. Personally, I'm torn between a Smart Phone board, since the quality of them isn't wow, but at the same time, phone cameras have definitely come a long way and people take some stellar shots.. idk. Video is more interesting than photos when it comes to smart phones.
Sep 16, 2025 at 06:14 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Lethimcook wrote:
Feeling a bit conflicted about the improvement of iPhone cameras (and in general smartphones) every year. On the one hand having more advanced mobile cameras for everyone means more people get interested in photography. But as the gap closes I feel less inclined to spend time and money to use my FF cameras.
Quick tldr on improvements.
All 3 cameras get the 48MP treatment as opposed to last year where only the Main camera did.
Ultrawide 13mm f2.2
Main 24mm f1.78 up to 48mm focal equiv
Telephoto 100mm f2.8 up to 200mm focal equiv
They are touting 8 lenses: 200, 100, 48, 35, 28, 24, 13, Macro
I'm not super knowledgeable about the image processing pipeline, but from what I understand the in between/zoom focal lengths are digital cropping plus some Apple proprietary processing/AI work to denoise and post-process. I'm sure reviewers will come out with comparisons later.
All three cameras have 48MP sensors, but do keep in mind that the three sensors are not the same size.
The main camera has a Type 1/1.28 sensor. It has a sensor that is 10mm by 7.5mm with a diagonal of 12.5mm. That makes it about a 3.5 crop of a FF 35mm sensor so when they say the main camera that uses this sensor is a 24mm equivalent it really is a 6.8mm lens and that 1.78 aperture will have the depth of field of about an f/6.3 lens. So think of this main camera as a fixed aperture 24mm f/6.3 lens with 48 MP. You can crop it 2X for a 48mm f/12.5 with 12 MP, but the camera has to use a lot of AI to try prevent that from showing how much that is straining the system with a really small sensor size.
The ultra wide angle camera uses a smaller Type 1/2.55 sensor. It is 6.17mm X 4.55mm with a diagonal of 7.36mm. Even though it is 48MP this sensor is pretty tiny. It is a 5.9 crop of a FF 35mm sensor. So when they say the lens is a 13mm equivalent it is really a 1.8mm lens and that f/2.2 aperture with such a small sensor will have the depth of field (and the diffraction difficulties) of an f/13 lens on FF 35mm. So think of this wide angle camera as a fixed aperture 13mm f/13 lens with 48MP. Adding MP to this small sensor isn't going to change things much and the challenges of getting good images out of that ultra wide angle will remain.
Likewise the telephoto camera uses the smaller Type 1/2.55 sensor. They did increase the size of this sensor, however. In the iPhone 16 it was the even smaller Type 1/3.2 sensor. Still the sensor they used is a 5.9 crop of a FF 35mm sensor. So when they say the lens is a 100mm equivalent it is really about a 17mm lens, and that f/2.8 aperture will have the depth of field of an f/16.5 lens on FF 35. So think of this telephoto as a fixed aperture 100mm f/16.5 lens with a 48 MP sensor. You can crop this to a 200mm equivalent, but the results will have the diffraction and depth of field challenges of an f/32 lens, so again they have to add a ton of AI and processing to that image. It may have 12MP, but the challenges are obvious.
So, keep in mind here the lenses didn't change. The sensor sizes mostly didn't change (the telephoto sensor did get a little bigger). Moslty, they just increased the pixel density of the sensors for the ultra wide and telephoto lenses. That isn't going to change things much. In fact, my guess is improvement in AI will matter more than increasing the pixel density of the ultra wide and telephoto cameras. Now increasing the sensor sizes and making new longer lenses should make a lot of difference for the ultra wide and telephoto cameras, but that is not what Apple did and it wouldn't be easy to do. I think it would be easier for the ultra wide, but physically fitting a longer lens on the back of the phone isn't going to be easy and making room in the phone for those larger sensors I am sure won't be easy either. In time I am sure they will do it, but don't expect to get anything at all like even a small all in one camera in a smartphone any time in the next decade.
p.2 #3 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
I didn’t realize there was a smartphone image thread. I’m not sure we need a whole board, but I’ve made some of my favorite images ever on the iPhone. I’ve long maintained that it’s the greatest camera platform ever: https://medium.com/@RomanMF/the-greatest-camera-ever-a04c8a996c7
I have a 17 Pro on order. I’m upgrading from my 15 Pro, which is my least favorite iPhone of all the ones I’ve owned. I’m excited to use the new camera platform, especially with Adobe’s Project Indigo app.
p.2 #4 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Steve Spencer wrote:
All three cameras have 48MP sensors, but do keep in mind that the three sensors are not the same size.
The main camera has a Type 1/1.28 sensor. It has a sensor that is 10mm by 7.5mm with a diagonal of 12.5mm. That makes it about a 3.5 crop of a FF 35mm sensor so when they say the main camera that uses this sensor is a 24mm equivalent it really is a 6.8mm lens and that 1.78 aperture will have the depth of field of about an f/6.3 lens. So think of this main camera as a fixed aperture 24mm f/6.3 lens with 48 MP. You can crop it 2X for a 48mm f/12.5 with 12 MP, but the camera has to use a lot of AI to try prevent that from showing how much that is straining the system with a really small sensor size.
The ultra wide angle camera uses a smaller Type 1/2.55 sensor. It is 6.17mm X 4.55mm with a diagonal of 7.36mm. Even though it is 48MP this sensor is pretty tiny. It is a 5.9 crop of a FF 35mm sensor. So when they say the lens is a 13mm equivalent it is really a 1.8mm lens and that f/2.2 aperture with such a small sensor will have the depth of field (and the diffraction difficulties) of an f/13 lens on FF 35mm. So think of this wide angle camera as a fixed aperture 13mm f/13 lens with 48MP. Adding MP to this small sensor isn't going to change things much and the challenges of getting good images out of that ultra wide angle will remain.
Likewise the telephoto camera uses the smaller Type 1/2.55 sensor. They did increase the size of this sensor, however. In the iPhone 16 it was the even smaller Type 1/3.2 sensor. Still the sensor they used is a 5.9 crop of a FF 35mm sensor. So when they say the lens is a 100mm equivalent it is really about a 17mm lens, and that f/2.8 aperture will have the depth of field of an f/16.5 lens on FF 35. So think of this telephoto as a fixed aperture 100mm f/16.5 lens with a 48 MP sensor. You can crop this to a 200mm equivalent, but the results will have the diffraction and depth of field challenges of an f/32 lens, so again they have to add a ton of AI and processing to that image. It may have 12MP, but the challenges are obvious.
So, keep in mind here the lenses didn't change. The sensor sizes mostly didn't change (the telephoto sensor did get a little bigger). Moslty, they just increased the pixel density of the sensors for the ultra wide and telephoto lenses. That isn't going to change things much. In fact, my guess is improvement in AI will matter more than increasing the pixel density of the ultra wide and telephoto cameras. Now increasing the sensor sizes and making new longer lenses should make a lot of difference for the ultra wide and telephoto cameras, but that is not what Apple did and it wouldn't be easy to do. I think it would be easier for the ultra wide, but physically fitting a longer lens on the back of the phone isn't going to be easy and making room in the phone for those larger sensors I am sure won't be easy either. In time I am sure they will do it, but don't expect to get anything at all like even a small all in one camera in a smartphone any time in the next decade....Show more →
Thanks for the explanation!
From a photographer‘s perspective, I think it would be nice to get just two lenses but both with the sensor size of the current main lens. Make one a more moderate ultra wide (18-20mm), with a crop mode to 24mm available. The other one could be a 35mm equiv with crop modes to 50mm and 70mm. That way we would have two really high quality options instead of just one, and at more useful focal lengths imo, but that’s of course subjective..
p.2 #6 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
RomanMF wrote:
I didn’t realize there was a smartphone image thread. I’m not sure we need a whole board, but I’ve made some of my favorite images ever on the iPhone. I’ve long maintained that it’s the greatest camera platform ever: https://medium.com/@RomanMF/the-greatest-camera-ever-a04c8a996c7
I have a 17 Pro on order. I’m upgrading from my 15 Pro, which is my least favorite iPhone of all the ones I’ve owned. I’m excited to use the new camera platform, especially with Adobe’s Project Indigo app.
Good read. Working on any cool games? I recently started gaming again with my teenage son (after about a long hiatus after they were born). I've been addicted to BG3, almost unhealthily!
p.2 #8 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Start at ~6:54 . It's a little long.
Photo:
- Ultrawide/Main is very similar to last year
- Telephoto (100mm) is substantially better than the 5x from last year (120mm) with comparisons on test charts + human portrait examples
- Selfie camera is ergonomic because you never have to rotate the phone anymore
- They quote the Apple Engineers saying that the lens coatings are the same from the 16 Pro.
- Close focusing on the 4x (100mm) is quirky. Needs to be head + shoulders in order to get a 48MP picture. A head only picture gets you down to 12MP.
Video:
- Open gate is now available
- Fun feature where you can have both front and selfie camera recording, but its all in one file
- Their opinion is that Apple offers the best mobile video system but this needs to be unlocked with Blackmagic or other non-default apps
The best part is that these features are almost identical across the 17 and 17 Pro minus the telephoto 100mm and the ability to record Dolby 4k 120fps (60fps on 17). I can't seem to find info on Apple or a source confirming open gate for 17 (its definitely on the 17 Pro)
p.2 #9 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Lethimcook wrote:
Start at ~6:54 . It's a little long.
Photo:
- Ultrawide/Main is very similar to last year
- Telephoto (100mm) is substantially better than the 5x from last year (120mm) with comparisons on test charts + human portrait examples
- Selfie camera is ergonomic because you never have to rotate the phone anymore
- They quote the Apple Engineers saying that the lens coatings are the same from the 16 Pro.
- Close focusing on the 4x (100mm) is quirky. Needs to be head + shoulders in order to get a 48MP picture. A head only picture gets you down to 12MP.
Video:
- Open gate is now available
- Fun feature where you can have both front and selfie camera recording, but its all in one file
- Their opinion is that Apple offers the best mobile video system but this needs to be unlocked with Blackmagic or other non-default apps
The best part is that these features are almost identical across the 17 and 17 Pro minus the telephoto 100mm and the ability to record Dolby 4k 120fps (60fps on 17). I can't seem to find info on Apple or a source confirming open gate for 17 (its definitely on the 17 Pro)...Show more →
I really appreciate that you posted the breakdown...now I don't have to watch it! Thank you.
p.2 #10 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Tarekith wrote:
I’d love to see a smartphone photography section here, great idea!
If worst comes to worst, we can always dissolve the board and revert to how things are now. We could give it a six-month trial to see if it gains any traction.
p.2 #11 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
That’s a shame about the coatings not being improved (The internal reflections can be horrible in certain strongly backlit conditions). ….And the need to continue using a clunky clip on variable ND for video, especially if one wants to use their preferred phone case and a gimbal).
The open gate feature is interesting. I wonder if Blackmagic will add dual frames (e.g., 9:16 and 16:9 so it resembles a cross).
p.2 #12 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Using the same answer to this which I gave to a cellphone sales person in the past who tried to advertise the superior camera in the latest cellphone edition: it's not even a priority for me to have the latest camera in a cellphone. One or two camera/phone generations before are still perfect to me. I only use my cellphone camera for some snapshots of documents to upload or parts to replace/order for example. This said, I agree that cellphone cameras have come a long way and are fantastic these days including image algorithms for processing. Just personally I don't like staring on a cellphone screen to take photos without having the OVF or EVF-eye connection in a camera.
p.2 #13 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
I would be interested in a dedicated forum, even though I am using an iphone 8.
My main bag is film photography but I always have my phone with me, and a film camera maybe 90% of the time. At the moment I use the phone to take 'non serious' pics where I am just capturing a moment to immediately share/text etc to friends/family.
I know that recent phones have amazing cameras in them, and seeing what they are capable of may make me use it more for actual digital photography.
My M10r remains basically unused while my Z7 is just used to scan film. This may be sacriligious for me to say, but when I see pics taken from a top end phone they all look the same to me as those from 'real' digital cameras. They all have that perfect digital look, for better or for worse.
A film camera/latest iphone combo most probably would be perfect for me.
p.2 #15 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
I don't think Stalman's review is "much stronger". I think for the most part they agree and arrive to the same conclusions.
PP Directly compares the 16Pro to the 17Pro whereas Stalman does the 14 and 15Pro vs the 17Pro. Stalman does a really good test showcasing the difference between a 4x image cropped in post versus using the 8x digital crop with Apple's imaging pipeline. Spoilers use the Apple imaging pipeline for the 8x it seems to do a better job most of the time.
PP Talks about Apple coatings...Stalman does not. Stalman also has a bit of misinformation as he says that 28 years later was completely shot on iPhone (this is not the case, it was used for specific scenes).
I will say that I like Stalman much better overall at least for the topic of iPhones. He's a working pro that uses them for a lot of his paid video work whereas PP reviews everything and anything. If you wanted to grab a Pro Max and wanted to learn tricks of the trade to use and get a pro quality workflow...Stalman's your guy.
p.2 #16 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
RomanMF wrote:
I think Stalman's review is much stronger than PetaPixel:
I absolutely don't need a new PHONE, but that new square sensor selfie sensor could make my YT video face-filming workflow so much faster in the field and obviate the need for something like an Osmo which I've been thinking about.
p.2 #17 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Lethimcook wrote:
I don't think Stalman's review is "much stronger". I think for the most part they agree and arrive to the same conclusions.
PP Directly compares the 16Pro to the 17Pro whereas Stalman does the 14 and 15Pro vs the 17Pro. Stalman does a really good test showcasing the difference between a 4x image cropped in post versus using the 8x digital crop with Apple's imaging pipeline. Spoilers use the Apple imaging pipeline for the 8x it seems to do a better job most of the time.
PP Talks about Apple coatings...Stalman does not. Stalman also has a bit of misinformation as he says that 28 years later was completely shot on iPhone (this is not the case, it was used for specific scenes).
I will say that I like Stalman much better overall at least for the topic of iPhones. He's a working pro that uses them for a lot of his paid video work whereas PP reviews everything and anything. If you wanted to grab a Pro Max and wanted to learn tricks of the trade to use and get a pro quality workflow...Stalman's your guy.
I think his testing was more thorough and his video was better produced. I like the PetaPixel guys' energy and banter, but the images they produce are not for me.
28 Years Later bit is not misinformation. The film was majorly shot on the iPhone 15 Pro & Pro Max (with cinema lenses). They used consumer drones for the aerials, I'm pretty sure the DJI Inspire 3, but I'm not 100% certain. The Panasonic AU-EVA1 was deployed for the infrared sequences.
p.2 #18 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Desmolicious wrote:
I would be interested in a dedicated forum, even though I am using an iphone 8.
My main bag is film photography but I always have my phone with me, and a film camera maybe 90% of the time. At the moment I use the phone to take 'non serious' pics where I am just capturing a moment to immediately share/text etc to friends/family.
I know that recent phones have amazing cameras in them, and seeing what they are capable of may make me use it more for actual digital photography.
My M10r remains basically unused while my Z7 is just used to scan film. This may be sacriligious for me to say, but when I see pics taken from a top end phone they all look the same to me as those from 'real' digital cameras. They all have that perfect digital look, for better or for worse.
A film camera/latest iphone combo most probably would be perfect for me....Show more →
Holy, Iphone 8.
I'm using Iphone 12 and try to replace new battery to use 2 more years.
My wife just doesn't understand I spent thousand and thousand on camera gears, but still keep using a phone has to charge every 10 hours.
Other than social medias and google something I rarely use other features. Have Ricoh GR with me everyday which is better than phone but just without zoom.
p.2 #19 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
Fred Miranda wrote:
I will be upgrading my iPhone 12 mini with the new 17 Pro. Excited to see what it can do for my photography.
What do you all think about starting a new FM board called "Smartphone Photography"?
Smartphones are insanely capable these days...they offer multiple lens options, RAW processing, and clever algorithms. Maybe it's time for a dedicated space?
Let me know your thoughts!
I like the idea, Fred, I would enjoy participating.
p.2 #20 · iPhone 17 Pro cameras include a new Telephoto ('100mm f2.8')
RomanMF wrote:
I didn’t realize there was a smartphone image thread. I’m not sure we need a whole board, but I’ve made some of my favorite images ever on the iPhone. I’ve long maintained that it’s the greatest camera platform ever: https://medium.com/@RomanMF/the-greatest-camera-ever-a04c8a996c7
I have a 17 Pro on order. I’m upgrading from my 15 Pro, which is my least favorite iPhone of all the ones I’ve owned. I’m excited to use the new camera platform, especially with Adobe’s Project Indigo app.
Adobe's Project Indigo is really cool...its computational capture gives low noise and HDR that can mimic or even surpass Apple's algorithms. The catch is it outputs 12MP DNGs because it doesn’t use the ProRAW API for 48MP. For now, the lower resolution is the only real limitation.
I do like the long exposure option which takes up to 32 frames to mimic a ND filter just like Sony did with the old Smooth Reflections app.
