photonc wrote:
Great comparison! Have you ever shot with the 28-70 GM @ 28 F2? Curious how it would compare to the Sigma.
Thanks, no I haven't. I got the Sigma before the 28-70 was announced and just struggle to think about spending the money for the GM. Similar with the 14-24 vs the 12-24 GM, I got the former on a B&H Dealzone deal a couple of months after it was released. I did get the 50-150 GM, although arguably that pairs pretty well with the 28-45 anyway.
Yogifi wrote:
I'm not sure tbh, most of mine at f1.4-f2 were central.
... I wouldn't rule it out.
I can try a similar shot at f2 focussed there at that midzone, at roughly that distance and get back to you.
From what I have already... just on the border of mid and central (much closer to central than your shot), and zoomed in to 300% (not sure how it works with screenshotting...probably even larger now - it's a very small part of the frame done at an angle) with an a7cii:
nokton 1.5 asph left, simera right - both at f2.
There's a difference but it's not huge especially when we don't zoom in like this. Simera has less CA - looks a bit cleaner, bit better bokeh. Nokton overall has a tad more vintage look imo, but not exactly.
I'm sure the apo 28 is much better there at these apertures but I'll check for you closer to how you framed it as that could make the difference.
It might be you're just too used to the good stuff now Give me some time and I'll get a more similar scene.
--- I'm not brilliant at comparison shots, or focussing in general with these. My previous post describing the difference between the simera and nokton wide-open ... I was thinking about the portrait test I did. Simera was a hair sharper, even though I thought it was much easier to focus with the nokton (I even said it out loud). I may have actually missed with the nokton somehow and I only ran through that once with the nokton, I was confident I hit it - after doing it twice with the simera just to be safe. But looking at some of these other comparison scenes I've taken, wide open it can be quite a big difference in sharpness centrally, with the Nokton coming out ahead wide open, at the expense of bokeh.
But again, who tf knows maybe I missed focus with the simera in those
I'll try my best with that shot for you though, hopefully it will give a rough idea if yours is way off at f2 mid-zone....Show more →
My dilemma is that I'm more of a landscape shooter, less of a wide aperture shooter. I know the Simera is known for its rendering, and with other lenses known for rendering, wide aperture absolute sharpness isn't as critical. I just wasn't expecting such a difference in the side by side. As you note about bokeh, the bokeh between the CV and the Sigma are kind of similar....while the Simera is quite different. Arguably that might be more important for those drawn to the large aperture shots taken with the Simera, not the absolute sharpness of it at those apertures.
I mean for you the apo is the easy choice right. How often do you need (a lot of) background blur in a 28 for landscape.
I kind of want it for both and honestly I'm basically stuck in a loop with the compact 28s.
Brain gets fried thinking about the differences and trying to make a decision --- do yourself a favour and don't read this:
Wide open simera has better background blur, but the nokton is sharper, so you need to do some post processing with the nokton blur (when it's possible to fix), but it's also a bit crunchier with the CA, which isn't as easy to fix.
You could instead stop the simera down to f2 to get that sharpness back centrally, easier than work in post ... but then the background blur adavantage...I think (?) it's still there...but not as much. But it's not exactly amazing blur either - but better than not having it.
And you get exif with the nokton and less side smearing. But the sligtly, but significantly, worse blur at similar distances, the ca...
And neither are all that sharp across the frame like the apo, but the apo doesn't have as much blur to do similar shots...but it lets you do by f4 (at most probably) better than what those would need f5.6-f8 for.
But then maybe without the character I don't know what I'd do with those shots. And maybe a film one is the way to go. But on nikon film slr the 2.8 is tough to focus and on m-mount the new viewfinders aren't really set up for them.
Maybe 28 apo for landscape, simera for dual purpose and think of it as an f2 (will check that midzone for you). But sometimes I like the crunch with the nokton... kind of looks a bit more filmic at times, some character - not always a positive though.
... Makes you want to say screw it, I'll use whatever.
Yogifi wrote:
I mean for you the apo is the easy choice right. How often do you need background blur in a 28 for landscape.
I kind of want it for both and honestly I'm basically stuck in a loop with the compact 28s.
Brain gets fried thinking about the differences and trying to make a decision --- do yourself a favour and don't read this:
Wide open simera has better background blur, but the nokton is sharper, so you need to do some post processing with the nokton blur (when it's possible to fix), but it's also a bit crunchier with the CA, which isn't as easy to fix.
You could instead stop the simera down to f2 to get that sharpness back centrally, easier than work in post ... but then the background blur adavantage...I think (?) it's still there...but not as much. But it's not exactly amazing blur either - but better than not having it.
And you get exif with the nokton and less side smearing. But the sligtly, but significantly, worse blur at similar distances, the ca...
And neither are all that sharp across the frame like the apo, but the apo doesn't have as much blur to do similar shots...but it lets you do by f4 (at most probably) better than what those would need f5.6-f8 for.
But then maybe without the character I don't know what I'd do with those shots. And maybe a film one is the way to go. But on nikon film slr the 2.8 is tough to focus and on m-mount the new viewfinders aren't really set up for them.
Maybe 28 apo for landscape, simera for dual purpose and think of it as an f2 (will check that midzone for you). But sometimes I like the crunch with the nokton... kind of looks a bit more filmic at times, some character - not always a positive though.
... Makes you want to say screw it, I'll use whatever. ...Show more →
Yeah, forgetting the Simera for a minute, I had to stop down the Sigma to compare it to the CV and Zeiss. They are small primes and the Sigma dwarfs them. I don't have a lot of super fast lenses, and the ones I do probably are more modern rendering vs classic, etc.
I guess for completeness, here's the Sigma at f/1.8 for those scenes above.
Yeah, the Sigma does look lovely. I saw another shot of yours - I think it was in the snow and a brown fence in the apo thread. The background blur difference with the apo was certainly notable.
But I guess the size is important since you still got this new apo right.
I mean unless there's money involved, I think we just use whatever makes us the happiest and actually want to use.
And maybe even if there's money involved, still do that and try some post processing when needed.
Or when nothing makes you really happy then what makes you the least unhappy currently.
Or as needed if you can keep em.
You only just got the apo, same with me and the nokton/simera really.
Probably better not to think about and just use and find out over time if you can keep them until then.
I have this bad habit of trying to get everything figured out so I can forget about all this stuff and just use them without thinking too much going forward.
It's taking much longer with the lenses than it usually does with other hobbies.
Yogifi wrote:
Yeah, the Sigma does look lovely. I saw another shot of yours - I think it was in the snow and a brown fence in the apo thread. The background blur difference with the apo was certainly notable.
But I guess the size is important since you still got this new apo right.
I mean unless there's money involved, I think we just use whatever makes us the happiest.
And maybe even if there's money involved, still do that and try some post processing when needed.
Or when nothing makes you really happy then what makes you the least unhappy currently.
Or as needed.
You only just got the apo, same with me and the nokton/simera really. No rush I guess.
Probably better not to think about and just use and find out over time.
I have this bad habit of trying to get everything figured out so I can forget about all this stuff and just use them without thinking too much going forward. It's taking much longer with the lenses than it usually does with other hobbies....Show more →
Yeah, I guess I enjoy trying different lenses quite a bit. For years I've been more of a prime shooter, although over the past couple of years I've been shooting zooms more.
In this particular case, 28mm is one of my (if not "the") favorite FLs for me. So the CV has been on my radar before Cosina even announced it. I always said it was an instant buy for me. And literally I ordered it within minutes of it going on sale on the CameraQuest website and I had it next day.
But I do take many of my lenses out, just not all at once. .
Yeah, I'd think about the equipment less and use what you have for a while. Over time you get a feel for what inspires you.
Tim, I'm looking at the full sized images at 100% of all three (28mm) lenses in the second comparison photos (the four statues shot). The APO and Sigma have significantly more focus falloff (or blurring) than the Simera. Bring them all up on a separate tab and then click back and forth anywhere behind the plane of focus and the Simera has much more detail in every area. Interesting...
All are superb. I'm not sure which looks best overall without zooming in. But since buying and shooting the 28 and 35 Simeras quite a bit, I'm partial to their look overall.
mudlake wrote:
Tim, I'm looking at the full sized images at 100% of all three (28mm) lenses in the second comparison photos (the four statues shot). The APO and Sigma have significantly more focus falloff (or blurring) than the Simera. Bring them all up on a separate tab and then click back and forth anywhere behind the plane of focus and the Simera has much more detail in every area. Interesting...
All are superb. I'm not sure which looks best overall without zooming in. But since buying and shooting the 28 and 35 Simeras quite a bit, I'm partial to their look overall.
Yeah, I can spin through them pretty well with Photo Mechanic...do side by sides, etc. The Simera does render things differently. You don't get maybe as much double lines, but there are areas that seem crunchier in other ways. And there is more LoCA. I can't quite figure out how the depth of field works, other than it appears to fall behind the focus point in that shot.
Yeah, shoot what you like to shoot. All these shots are just for fun. I doubt many people could post comparison shots of these 4 lenses.
tsdevine wrote:
Here is the second scene, shot with the Simera at f/2 and f/2.5. Focus was on the right most statue's right eye for all of the shots in this scene.
I would have to believe the above is not representative of a normal copy of the Simera based on what you guys say your experience is.
For what it's worth, that's exactly the response I got using my buddy's Simera C 28 on my FX3. From his four lens kit, I gathered that the line was not designed to be resolution monsters. But they are nicely even across the frame (the UHD frame, anyway). It's possible they're just messed up in the same way, I guess.
Good testing. For my money, the APO Lanthar is the best thing going in the focal length for all-around use. It's such a pleasing little guy.
freaklikeme wrote:
For what it's worth, that's exactly the response I got using my buddy's Simera C 28 on my FX3. From his four lens kit, I gathered that the line was not designed to be resolution monsters. But they are nicely even across the frame (the UHD frame, anyway). It's possible they're just messed up in the same way, I guess.
Good testing. For my money, the APO Lanthar is the best thing going in the focal length for all-around use. It's such a pleasing little guy.
Yeah, no doubt the CV is my go to 28mm prime lens now. And my Sigma holds up well for when I want the flexibility of a zoom. Really glad that Cosina made an APO-Lanthar and even more so an E mount version.
Great comparison! Between it's small size and it's ability to match my other Voigtlander APO lenses, I definitely see 28mm getting added to my kit. But I have to say I am very impressed by the results of the Sigma 28-45mm. I never gave the 28-45mm much thought, having such a limited zoom range, but it definitely has some top notch IQ.
DWOfPaul wrote:
Great comparison! Between it's small size and it's ability to match my other Voigtlander APO lenses, I definitely see 28mm getting added to my kit. But I have to say I am very impressed by the results of the Sigma 28-45mm. I never gave the 28-45mm much thought, having such a limited zoom range, but it definitely has some top notch IQ.
I really do like the 28-45. Gives me the same vibes as my CV APOs albeit in a much larger package. But given it has AF and covers a very useful range for me, I can overlook the size and weight.
Hoping to get out more over the holiday to shoot the CV 28. It's kind of a rough time of the year, between the weather...short daylight, etc. And seems like the holidays are always busy.
Are these shot on a Sony? If so, I think this is pretty typical behavior for the Simera 28/1.4 on that sensor.
The size/res/contrast/price/haptics of the 28 APO are impressive.
But I’d still opt for the CV 28/1.5 or a maybe the Simera 28/1.4
tsdevine wrote:
Here is the second scene, shot with the Simera at f/2 and f/2.5. Focus was on the right most statue's right eye for all of the shots in this scene.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Are these shot on a Sony? If so, I think this is pretty typical behavior for the Simera 28/1.4 on that sensor.
The size/res/contrast/price/haptics of the 28 APO are impressive.
But I’d still opt for the CV 28/1.5 or a maybe the Simera 28/1.4
All the shots I posted in this thread were shot on my Sony a7R V.
Yeah, definitely not trying to push any specific lens here...just thought I'd share the comparison, since I have the lenses to do it. Everyone should shoot the lenses they find most pleasing to them.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I always love comps—even if the lens I prefer look bad
I don’t mind—most of the lenses at really enjoy are far less corrected than the Simera. All about preferences.
Happy Holidays Tim and thanks for taking the time to post these.
Happy holidays to you as well, and thank you! I realize everyones tastes can be different, no doubt about it. I think it all helps us find our individual style, something that I value in my own shooting.
Give me some time and I'll get a more similar scene.
https://i.postimg.cc/G3FtLrYd/image.png
