Ripolini wrote:
With this kind of reasoning, VR is useless too...
I shot for decades with Velvia 50 and Provia 100 without IBIS or VR, bringing home shots that I sold anyway. So I shouldn't use more than ISO 100.
And there are photographers who didn't even have AF in the past... yet they took excellent photos. So what?
You say you're a professional photographer and that a tripod is better for certain photos. Sure. For serious macro and landscape work, I always use a tripod. But then you say that IBIS isn't really necessary in an entry-level camera? So you're saying that anyone who buys an entry-level camera should always travel with a tripod instead of using IBIS? Not all amateurs want to carry a tripod with them; and if you're a professional photographer, you know that there are situations where you can't use a tripod unless you have specific permission.
Z50II is NOT the cheapest DX MILC. It's the most expensive one, actually (more expensive than Z30, Z50 and Zfc). And IBIS doesn't cost so much....Show more →
I should clarify: the Z50ii is the cheapest Expeed 7 camera. If it came with IBIS was priced at $1,250+, people would easily turn away from it. I think it's priced very aggressively and Nikon offers VR in lenses that will need it most.
On the flip side, yes I do think entry-level photographers would be better served carrying a tripod rather than relying on IBIS. They'd become more methodical in composition and grow as a photographer quicker.
And yes, I do think VR is mostly a marketing ploy to upsell consumers, and not really needed in most lenses. Telephotos? Sure - it stabilizes the viewfinder for composition, but in real-use has little effect on the final image for the shutter speeds typically used. Wide angles, standard zooms, and fast or slow primes? Not as necessary.
I agree Nikon should have just included IBIS in the Z50 II, but I can see why they didn't from a business perspective.
StanOPhoto wrote:
.. If it came with IBIS was priced at $1,250+, people would easily turn away from it. I think it's priced very aggressively and Nikon offers VR in lenses that will need it most.
...
I agree Nikon should have just included IBIS in the Z50 II, but I can see why they didn't from a business perspective.
Nikon has never developed an APS-C sensor with IBIS; for many years now, it has been using the same 20.9-Mpix sensor manufactured by Tower Semiconductor (aka TowerJazz). This is the only reason why Nikon has never included IBIS in ANY DX camera. Yes, they are saving on (development) costs only because people are still happy to buy cameras with an old sensor.
I'm happy to buy a camera that produces great images and is a pleasure to use. The age of the sensor is irrelevant to that. And IBIS is not dependent on the sensor, it's dependent on the housing of the sensor.
Why do all gear discussion devolve into having the best specs? I have a Z8 also which is better in every way to the Z50 II except for size, and that size is a large part of why the Z50 II is so much fun.
Nikon has never developed an APS-C sensor with IBIS; for many years now, it has been using the same 20.9-Mpix sensor manufactured by Tower Semiconductor (aka TowerJazz). This is the only reason why Nikon has never included IBIS in ANY DX camera. Yes, they are saving on (development) costs only because people are still happy to buy cameras with an old sensor.
That list consists of a discontinued camera that is no longer available (and sells used for around $1,100), a few Micro 4/3 cameras, and a discontinued APS-C Compact, that again, there's no way you'll actually find for under $1,000 new, and usually sells for around $1,300 used.
Right now, current interchangeable lens cameras with IBIS and an APS-C or larger sensor consist of:
Fujifilm X-S20, which is $1,400 on sale right now.
Fujifilm X-T50, which is $1,500
Sony a6700, which is $1,500 on sale right now.
Canon R7, which is $1,350 with a $300 sale right now...normally the most expensive of the three.
Plus a few more Fujifilms that are more expensive.
Then you get into full frame, which starts at $1,600 with the Z5 II.
There is no current APS-C interchangeable lens camera with IBIS for $1,000 or less. They're ALL more expensive...most in the $1400 to $1500 range.
Fuji S-10 was introduced the same year as Z50. Z50 price in 2020 was 860 US $. Fuji X S-10 price was around 990 $ with 26 MPix and 5-axis IBIS. This demonstrates that IBIS is not that expensive, and the reason why Nikon DX MILCs do not have IBIS isn't its cost.
If I were to guess I'd say that Nikon hasn't equipped the Z50II with IBIS because there is a higher end Z90 coming in 2026 with a higher res sensor and Exceed 8 that will feature IBIS.
bcaslis wrote:
IBIS is not dependent on the sensor, it's dependent on the housing of the sensor.
Yes, Nikon most likely designs and adds its own IBIS units inside (FX) camera bodies during assembly.
Certainly, Nikon has never developed IBIS units for DX bodies and still uses the same sensor as DSLRs without IBIS (D500 and D7500), with no improvement in the current MILC era (apart from Expeed).
A future DX MILC with a more complete feature set is pure speculation.
My 28-400 virtually lives on my Z50ii especially for our afternoon walks along the shore - great for eagles, ospreys and herons as well as landscapes and sunsets. When 42mm equivalent isn’t wide enough I have the option of the very pocketable 16-50 or the wider and slightly larger 12-28.
My other Z body is a Z7 that I have owned since its release and of course I now find its Expeed 6 performance rather lackluster but still love the resolution, so while tempted by a Z5ii I have resisted. A Z8 would offer everything I would like in one body but at the expense of size and weight. Fingers crossed for a Z7iii though that doesn’t look very likely.
In the meantime the Z7 and Z50ii complement each other very well.
StanOPhoto wrote:
I utilize IBIS only for personal travel during twilight and even then,
Talking about IBIS in an entry-level camera is silly, especially when Nikon left it out to cost of entry down. The Z50ii offers so much bang for your buck. I just wish Nikon would release a D500 replacement that is larger and can use a vertical grip.
A very large portion of my use case is handheld shots in low light while traveling, bars/restaurants/nightlife, lol. I am the target market for IBIS.
An entry level body, paired with cheap third party fast primes and IBIS, can get images (and video!!!) that looks far better than a phone.
Just because it's not how you shoot doesn't mean it's not needed.
Electronic shutter and moving subjects doesn't go well with Z50II. The slow sensor killed couple of my pictures (BIF and child biking around). Otherwise cute little camera with great AF. I didn't even care about IBIS because the lenses I used had VR.
ISO1600 wrote:
A very large portion of my use case is handheld shots in low light while traveling, bars/restaurants/nightlife, lol. I am the target market for IBIS.
An entry level body, paired with cheap third party fast primes and IBIS, can get images (and video!!!) that looks far better than a phone.
Just because it's not how you shoot doesn't mean it's not needed.
You guys are acting liking there’s no stabilization options available. Nearly every Z mount DX lens offers VR. Theres also plenty of cameras on the market. If the Z50ii doesn’t check most of your want/need boxes, don’t get it.
There are a few things this camera lacks to be very attractive to me, and #1 is quality of EVF, especially refresh rate.
As an amateur who likes to shoot wild life, I wouldn't need to pay premium $'s for Z8, I would be very happy with Z50II, but...
cvrle59 wrote:
There are a few things this camera lacks to be very attractive to me, and #1 is quality of EVF, especially refresh rate.
As an amateur who likes to shoot wild life, I wouldn't need to pay premium $'s for Z8, I would be very happy with Z50II, but...
I suspect that a higher quality EVF with faster refresh rate would necessitate faster internal electronics not to mention a faster sensor (perhaps at least partially stacked all Z6III) which would probably put it in the price range of a Z6III so . . .
glassartist wrote:
I suspect that a higher quality EVF with faster refresh rate would necessitate faster internal electronics not to mention a faster sensor (perhaps at least partially stacked all Z6III) which would probably put it in the price range of a Z6III so . . .
A 24MP partially stacked apsc “pro” body in the Z6iii body and at the Z5ii price point would be a great wildlife and sports camera.
cvrle59 wrote:
There are a few things this camera lacks to be very attractive to me, and #1 is quality of EVF, especially refresh rate.
As an amateur who likes to shoot wild life, I wouldn't need to pay premium $'s for Z8, I would be very happy with Z50II, but...
Honestly the EVF is pretty good for a sub $1,000 body. It’s clear and decent in size. It’s not as good as something like the Z6 III of course but it’s not bad.
This whole debate reminds me of a recent YouTube video I saw regarding the Nikon Z30. The presenter starts yammering on what features the Z8 and Z9 have, that the Z30 didn't have. I don't expect lower priced cameras to have the same features of the pricier models. Pay the money and buy the camera you think you need.
Agreed, everyone wants to get caught up in a spec war. I wasn't interested in the Z50 II because it didn't have IBIS for a year. But the new lenses tempted me to try it and I'm amazed at the amount of fun it is to use. I started the thread to see if others have discovered this also, but like every camera forum it has devolved into a "it has to have the ultimate specs to be good enough for me". I thought the purpose of photography was to have fun!
bcaslis wrote:
... everyone wants to get caught up in a spec war... I wasn't interested in the Z50 II because it didn't have IBIS for a year. But the new lenses tempted me to try it and I'm amazed at the amount of fun it is to use. I started the thread to see if others have discovered this also, but like every camera forum it has devolved into a "it has to have the ultimate specs to be good enough for me". I thought the purpose of photography was to have fun!
Spending more than US$1500 to photograph Christmas decorations may be fun for some people.
But this is a technical section of the forum, so it's perfectly legitimate to discuss the features of a camera in a 3D entitled "Opinions on Z50II", what we like and what we don't like, right?
Do you know what "confirmation bias" is? Technical sections of forums aren't necessarily "echo chambers".
