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Adobe is dying a slow painful death.
  
 
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #1 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


Camperjim wrote:
I am so unsophisticated with Lr/PS that I do not understand non-destructive workflow. After I finish editing, I use "save as" and the original file is not touched.

Let me try to explain.

First off, Lightroom is basically a non-destructive editor. Everything you do can be undone without affecting the integrity of th underlying raw file. All of its original data is still there no mater what crazy edits you do in Lightroom, and you can always get back to that original if you need to.

A lot of operations in older editors were destructive. Let’s say that you removed a dust spot in those earlier programs. That literally altered the underlying file, and you could not go back. Something similar could happen with sharpening, and wth many other operations.

In some cases, you might find yourself well into your post-processing and realize that you needed to undo something from earlier in the process… and that either you could not undo it or that undoing it would mess up other things you had done to the file.

I first encounter the difference between destructive and non-destructive editing in audio. A long time ago, with limited tracks on the recording devices, we sometimes had to “bounce tracks” to combine them into a single audio track. Once you do that, there’s no going back — those tracks are now inseparable. The same thing was true if you altered the volume of a track, added an effect, or panned it while mixing — those changes were not permanent.

Later, audio editing became largely non-destructive. Instead of combining tracks into a single new track, with recording media that handled dozens (sometimes MANY dozens) of tracks, you never combined tracks the old way. With automated consoles you never actually changed the audio in a track when you panned, EQed, or adjusted volume — you must altered the way it was played back. The originals always remain intact.)
Apr 28, 2026 at 11:05 AM
Camperjim
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p.3 #2 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


So if I understand, without a "smart object", I could return in history, but would also undo all the subsequent editing. With a smart object, I could return to that one edit and undo or change it without also changing all the edits that occurred afterwards. I guess that would be very important for those of you who do lots of editing steps.
Apr 28, 2026 at 07:50 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #3 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


Camperjim wrote:
So if I understand, without a "smart object", I could return in history, but would also undo all the subsequent editing. With a smart object, I could return to that one edit and undo or change it without also changing all the edits that occurred afterwards. I guess that would be very important for those of you who do lots of editing steps.

Basically, yes. I can change or turn off any edit that I make at any point in the process of a non-destructive workflow.

That’s pretty useful, since how I will ultimately handle an image is not always clear at the start, and sometimes I’ll try things along the way and change my mind or realize that for it to work I need to go back to the raw file and alter the staring point.

It is very useful even if you only have a few editing steps. My most basic workflow isn’t all that complex. On straight forward images it involves:

IN ACR

1. Some adjustments to exposure (and potentially shadows, highlights, blacks, and maybe whites), contrast, color balance, sharpening, possibly noise reduction and spot removal. That sounds like a lot, but on a skimpily image that might take only a couple of minutes.

IN PHOTOSHOP

1. Curves and dodge/burn layers, and some straightforward sharpening.

Let’s say I’m in PS and I find a spot that got missed (though less likely with the newly automated dust removal in ACR). I just double click the layer to reopen it in ACR, remove the spot, and go back to PS.

But, yes, it is also pretty useful if you have a lot of layers. Last nightI was working on a photograph that used two exposures of teh same scene, each of which was brought into PS as a smart object. I then used a mask to blend to two versions of the scene. As I worked I realized that I wanted to adjust the color balance in i part of the scene, so I just — again — double clicked that layer, went back to ACR, made the changes, and then returned to PS to continue.
Apr 28, 2026 at 10:07 PM
Camperjim
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p.3 #4 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


Dan, interesting, thank you.
I can't remember the last time I blended two or more exposures. When absolutely necessary I still have a version of Photomatrix. I still have my homemade adjustments to permit blending without that garish HDR look. With the greatly improved dynamic range on my newer cameras, I rarely need that approach.

My workflow is similar to your basic workflow. I start with Canon DPP4 software which I suppose is the equivalent of ACR. It performs Canon's "picture style" adjustments and those can also be custom set as a starting point before use of the sliders. It provides sliders for the basic, global adjustments: exposure, color, shadows/highlights, contrast, saturation, etc. I use these settings to a achieve approximate desired results. I have it set for some additional automatic adjustments. I use a minimal level of auto sharpening, auto lens correction, and the very powerful diffraction correction algorithm.

DPP4 gets me in the ballpark but I never go back to it or use it for any fine tuning. Instead I go to Elements. I start with the final exposure adjustments. Rather than dink with curves, I use the simple Levels sliders for black, white and overall exposure. Beyond that I typically use dodge and burn.

I compose in camera but rarely use a tripod so I shoot slightly wide and do a final straightening and minor crop. I then save as a tiff. On rare occasions I might work with a layer. That would typically be due to a landscape where the sky is too bright.

For most images, both the DPP4 and Elements adjustments can be completed in 5-10 minutes or less. If that timing does not work, usually that means my "artistic" vision was foggy and my capture was poor. I don't typically try to make something happen when the capture was not right.

I do have a final rule of thumb. If the final edit is just not what I want, I don't play with going back and forth making adjustments. Instead I start fresh from the raw file.


Apr 29, 2026 at 04:58 AM
MMP
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p.3 #5 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


gkinard1952 wrote:
Stock price is down in the 220's to 250's pushing 52 week lows. Personally I think in 5 years they will be completely irrelevant and in 10 years be something only us old timers remember.

I just added some at $231 lol

I say this only half joking, but they're too big to fail. There's arguments you can make for or against them, but the one I hear the most is the subscription model. When/if other companies largely abandon subscriptions, Adobe will do the same to stay competitive and profitable. Personally, I don't see subscription models, or Adobe going away any time soon.
Apr 29, 2026 at 07:29 PM
ruthenium
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p.3 #6 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


MMP wrote:
I just added some at $231 lol

I say this only half joking, but they're too big to fail. There's arguments you can make for or against them, but the one I hear the most is the subscription model. When/if other companies largely abandon subscriptions, Adobe will do the same to stay competitive and profitable. Personally, I don't see subscription models, or Adobe going away any time soon.

My concern is about the effect of AI on the younger generation, that is, on the future (potential) users of photography processing software. Today, there is some concern about the effect of "offloading" intellectual tasks to AI on the intellectual abilities of the individuals who use AI. To quote from a recent research article:
"information stored in a technical device might be quickly forgotten, or might not be processed deeply enough so that no long-term memory representations are formed. In addition to detrimental effects of offloading on (long-term) memory, offloading hinders skill acquisition and harms metacognition"

A practical example of this I see in my senior undergraduate chemistry courses where 50% of my students don't know the composition and structure of acetic acid - this is one of the most simple and trivial organic compounds that is the principle ingredient of vinegar: CH3COOH.
For a student enrolled in a Chemistry program, not knowing the structure of acetic acid is comparable to not being able to tell the product of 5 x 5 without using a calculator (or ChatGPT).

What I am alluding to is that in the near future, the next generation of photographers may well find the "old-fashioned" software products, that are not AI-based and require some conscious and educated decision-making, too complicated and impossible to use.

I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years from now programs like Photoshop would be used only by a small group of professionals, specializing in certain tasks that most future photographers would have only a very vague idea of. The main tools of "tomorrow" are probably going to be software products that are being developed now (we don't have these yet), that would do most processing facilitated by AI, and these shall replace the "default" processing applications of today.
The next generation of photographers wouldn't have the slightest idea of why one need to do all the manual adjustments, dodge and burn, masking, etc. instead of allowing the AI to do all the menial tasks that take so much time today.
My concern is that Lr, Ps, C1, etc. are soon going to be like phones with rotary dials.
Apr 29, 2026 at 08:14 PM
MMP
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p.3 #7 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


ruthenium wrote:
My concern is about the effect of AI on the younger generation, that is, on the future (potential) users of photography processing software. Today, there is some concern about the effect of "offloading" intellectual tasks to AI on the intellectual abilities of the individuals who use AI. To quote from a recent research article:
"information stored in a technical device might be quickly forgotten, or might not be processed deeply enough so that no long-term memory representations are formed. In addition to detrimental effects of offloading on (long-term) memory, offloading hinders skill acquisition and harms metacognition"

A practical example of this I...Show more →

I do think I understand what you're getting at, but I think you may be overlooking at least two related details. If Adobe keeps their current user interfaces, then I'd agree with your prediction. However, I think the chances of Adobe not adapting to further incorporate AI into their interface is slim to none. I believe they will always keep full manual controls available, but contrary to the current setup where manual controls are front and center and AI processes are somewhat more tucked away, I think we're likely to see those manual controls more hidden in the future. With that assumption you have to ask yourself, will I (or the next generation) really NEED the editing skills in 10yrs? The logical answer is, quite obviously, no.

I don't want to go too far off track with this, but it's probably worth entertaining that same question with regards to some current college degrees and course work. I'm not disputing that handing off tasks to AI hinders skill acquisition, but instead I'm suggesting that perhaps that skill is no longer worth acquiring. We've seen this already in recent history with not having to memorize phone numbers, not needing to read a paper map or follow written driving directions. I was required to learn things in college that I now don't need to know in my career because of technological advancements, and this was well before the advent of AI. If 10% of what I learned has been handed off to technology, imagine the percentage 10yrs from now for a current graduate now that AI is in the picture. Similar to Adobe, if colleges don't adapt their curriculum, you could expect a significant drop in enrollment as the neccesity would be highly diminished.
Apr 29, 2026 at 08:47 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #8 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


ruthenium wrote:
My concern is about the effect of AI on the younger generation, that is, on the future (potential) users of photography processing software. Today, there is some concern about the effect of "offloading" intellectual tasks to AI on the intellectual abilities of the individuals who use AI. To quote from a recent research article:
"information stored in a technical device might be quickly forgotten, or might not be processed deeply enough so that no long-term memory representations are formed. In addition to detrimental effects of offloading on (long-term) memory, offloading hinders skill acquisition and harms metacognition"

A practical example of this I...Show more →

Some years back, there was a movement in higher education among some folks to lessen the emphasis on knowing things and replace it with the ability to find what the information one needs when it is needed.

The latter is, of course, a valuable skill. But in order to really engage a subject you have to go beyond just knowing where to ask for help and internalize a whole lot of information and concepts that you can call up yourself. Just imagine going to an exert in some endeavor — medicine, law, auto mechanics, you name it — and instead of getting a person who really knows their stuff getting someone who will just go ask an AI for answer about things he/she doesn’t really understand very deeply.

I watched that sort of skill diminish over a period of a decade or two and it concerned me a lot.


Apr 29, 2026 at 10:52 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.3 #9 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


MMP wrote:
I do think I understand what you're getting at, but I think you may be overlooking at least two related details. If Adobe keeps their current user interfaces, then I'd agree with your prediction. However, I think the chances of Adobe not adapting to further incorporate AI into their interface is slim to none. I believe they will always keep full manual controls available, but contrary to the current setup where manual controls are front and center and AI processes are somewhat more tucked away, I think we're likely to see those manual controls more hidden in the future. With...Show more →

If you don't have the knowledge, skills, and experience to reproduce what is available via automated means manually then you won't be able to do it when the automated solution fails, which quite often is the case. If the automated solution does work, then all the value is produced by the company who owns that technology and that's where all the money will go, since if anyone can do it with the help of this model, then they can always be replaced by someone who will do it for no pay or for half the pay that you were doing it, and so society will collapse with this model since those who were previously skilled worked have nothing to contribute and thus they will not be able to afford even the subscription fee of the model let alone buy food or other necessities in life. It's really useful to have a complete understanding of the whole process and being able to do everything oneself, if one is to add value to the chain.
Apr 30, 2026 at 04:34 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.3 #10 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


gdanmitchell wrote:
Some years back, there was a movement in higher education among some folks to lessen the emphasis on knowing things and replace it with the ability to find what the information one needs when it is needed.

The latter is, of course, a valuable skill. But in order to really engage a subject you have to go beyond just knowing where to ask for help and internalize a whole lot of information and concepts that you can call up yourself. Just imagine going to an exert in some endeavor — medicine, law, auto mechanics, you name it — and instead...Show more →

This is a very shallow form of education and as the models change all the time the user skills required to use them change all the time also, and without having the understanding of how to do things yourself then your brain has nothing to do and will lose its ability to think, create, be critical, etc. Use of computers or mobile devices to find information and do schoolwork is really not that good especially at early stages of education as the distractions available will take most of the student's time, and they will just be a biological clicker and consumer of "content" but learn nothing substantial. This already shows as measurable loss of skills and probably smart schools will take some steps back and bring out the pencil, paper, and paper books to learn things properly.
Apr 30, 2026 at 04:38 AM
 


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gkinard1952
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p.3 #11 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


MMP wrote:
I just added some at $231 lol

I say this only half joking, but they're too big to fail. There's arguments you can make for or against them, but the one I hear the most is the subscription model. When/if other companies largely abandon subscriptions, Adobe will do the same to stay competitive and profitable. Personally, I don't see subscription models, or Adobe going away any time soon.

Time will tell, good luck.
Apr 30, 2026 at 05:41 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #12 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
This is a very shallow form of education and as the models change all the time the user skills required to use them change all the time also, and without having the understanding of how to do things yourself then your brain has nothing to do and will lose its ability to think, create, be critical, etc. Use of computers or mobile devices to find information and do schoolwork is really not that good especially at early stages of education as the distractions available will take most of the student's time, and they will just be a biological clicker and...Show more →

For those thinking a lot about these things and the influence of evolving AI technology, there’s an excellent article in today’s New York Times. Here is a link.

These things are all connected, and the implications for society are profound.
Apr 30, 2026 at 09:01 AM
MMP
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p.3 #13 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
If you don't have the knowledge, skills, and experience to reproduce what is available via automated means manually then you won't be able to do it when the automated solution fails, which quite often is the case. If the automated solution does work, then all the value is produced by the company who owns that technology and that's where all the money will go, since if anyone can do it with the help of this model, then they can always be replaced by someone who will do it for no pay or for half the pay that you were doing...Show more →

Automated solutions fail quite often? Can you be more specific? I've dealt with technology outages like everyone else, but have never experienced any catastrophic, long-lasting effects. Failures are usually resolved in minutes to hours.

The collapse of society is a quite dramatic take. We can't view AI and automation as if humans are going to remain stationary while technology evolves. History proves that is absolutely not what happens. Traditional jobs will be lost, and new jobs will be created, just as we've seen over the last century. The first example that comes to mind is the Milkman who was put out of business with the invention of the household refrigerator. If we had the ability to rewrite history, I'm confident everyone besides the milkman would still choose the refrigerator. The refrigerators do fail (seemingly every 5-7yrs now), but that is a miniscule inconvenience compared to the advantages of being able to keep cold/frozen foods.

Circling back to Adobe and manual editing; you are absolutely correct in that the value is produced by the company holding the technology, but the software companies hold the value whether it is a "manual" or automated process. We don't really know how to manipulate the pixels of our images, we just know how to use the tools in the software to brighten faces, darken skies, reduce noise, etc, etc. You are referring to this as a "manual" process, but in reality, that too is automated. You don't actually have a complete understanding of what is going on behind the scenes at the code level, you just know how to use the sliders, which automate the effect, to achieve the result you want. I don't see that being much different than being able to type a prompt that says "brighten the face, darken the sky, and get rid of the sensor noise".

At the risk of ruffling some feathers, I think we are headed towards a transition similar to the film-to-digital transition. With that, I think many photographers are secretly worried about losing an edge over the everyday person carrying a phone or entry level camera. We've spent many years learning how to do things one way, and now a much quicker, easier, and arguably more effective method is emerging. The skillset doesn't disappear, it just requires a shift on the users' behalf to modify the input parameters to create a result that novices can't consistently replicate.
Apr 30, 2026 at 09:27 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #14 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


MMP wrote:
Automated solutions fail quite often? Can you be more specific? I've dealt with technology outages like everyone else, but have never experienced any catastrophic, long-lasting effects. Failures are usually resolved in minutes to hours.

The collapse of society is a quite dramatic take. We can't view AI and automation as if humans are going to remain stationary while technology evolves. History proves that is absolutely not what happens. Traditional jobs will be lost, and new jobs will be created, just as we've seen over the last century. The first example that comes to mind is the Milkman who was put out...Show more →

Especially regarding the “collapse of society” notion, I really encourage you to put aside 10-15 minutes to read the article at the link I shared above.

Back to the photography-specific discussion, I don’t think that photographers have to worry about the “everyday person” producing better work than they can. If there’s one thing that we’ve learned in (almost) 200 years of photography it is that the person behind the camera (their skills, their vision) make a much bigger difference than all of the technology in the world.

Edited on Apr 30, 2026 at 10:04 AM · View previous versions
Apr 30, 2026 at 10:02 AM
Taperwing
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p.3 #15 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


MMP wrote:
I just added some at $231 lol

I say this only half joking, but they're too big to fail. There's arguments you can make for or against them, but the one I hear the most is the subscription model. When/if other companies largely abandon subscriptions, Adobe will do the same to stay competitive and profitable. Personally, I don't see subscription models, or Adobe going away any time soon.

Of course nothing is "too big to fail", thinking of you Kodak and Polaroid, but I know you understand. That said, I am in your camp, and added a modest position. Adoble is still the 800lbf gorilla, but hungry competitors are lining up.

Adobe has deployed real, and useful, product updates that are starting to tap into the power of AI. No, you can't use natural language, text or voice, to guide an edit. Yet.

Also, any intelligent party using Adobe products professionally are going to be extremely wary of bouncing a natural language edit off of a AI platform that is not 'walled off.' I've started to use a data analysis AI platform for some work inquiries. I'm very careful to decontent my data sets since they have to be uploaded.
Apr 30, 2026 at 10:03 AM
PIOK
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p.3 #16 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


Nikon Died about 5 years ago...on the internet


Apr 30, 2026 at 10:32 AM
ruthenium
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p.3 #17 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
This is a very shallow form of education and as the models change all the time the user skills required to use them change all the time also, and without having the understanding of how to do things yourself then your brain has nothing to do and will lose its ability to think, create, be critical, etc. Use of computers or mobile devices to find information and do schoolwork is really not that good especially at early stages of education as the distractions available will take most of the student's time, and they will just be a biological clicker and...Show more →

Interesting that you mentioned the pencil, paper...
I have been recently reading about the school reform in Sweden:
"The Swedish government has committed over €100 million to bring back physical textbooks and reduce screen time in schools. The initiative, led by Education Minister Lotta Edholm, prioritizes handwriting, reading printed books, and teacher-led instruction over tablets and laptops.
This reversal has been unfolding throughout 2024 and 2025, with further initiatives aimed at 2026.
The changes are affecting preschools and primary schools, with new curricula designed to make cellphone use in schools virtually nonexistent in many areas."

I think this is a move in the right direction.
In recent human history, there have been inventions that affected humanity in significant ways. There might be a certain pattern of technology making revolutionary advances that subsequently require corrections.
Someone mentioned the refrigeration (that made the milkman redundant). For decades, the refrigerant was a Freon - a chlorofluorocarbon. The inventor of this refrigerant demonstrated the safety of the material (gas) by inhaling it in public. Today, freons are banned because they destroy the ozone layer around the Earth that protect humans from the damaging UV radiation of the Sun.
Coincidentally, the same scientist, Thomas Midgley Jr. (1889–1944), an American chemist and mechanical engineer, also invented tetraethyl lead (TEL) as an additive for gasoline, to reduce the "knocking" in car engines. Today, leaded gasoline is no longer used for the obvious reason that spilling toxic lead into the environment has been recognized as not a good idea, despite the fact that it was good for the engines.
Yet another good example is the development of polyfluorinated materials (e.g., Teflon) that have excellent and very useful properties such as an outstanding thermal stability. Today, these materials are increasingly banned exactly because they are "forever chemicals" that persist in the environment and accumulate in the human body.
This list of very useful inventions can be continued, and I think that the AI may well be the next addition to this list: a remarkably impressive advance in computer technology ... that shall hopefully be banned because of the harm it does to human intellectual development (in the formative years). My concern is that this (the ban) may not happen for another 10 years.
Apr 30, 2026 at 03:31 PM
melcat
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p.3 #18 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


ruthenium wrote:
Coincidentally, the same scientist, Thomas Midgley Jr. (1889–1944), an American chemist and mechanical engineer, also invented tetraethyl lead (TEL) as an additive for gasoline...

You omitted the punchline! He was strangled to death by a contraption he’d invented to get himself out of bed (he was partially paralysed).

... AI shall hopefully be banned because of the harm it does to human intellectual development (in the formative years). My concern is that this (the ban) may not happen for another 10 years.

There are already selective bans within the software industry itself, and the tipping point seems to be “security bug reports” generated by AIs that have been sucking all the maintainers’ time. Just in the last couple of days the stewards of the well-known (albeit boutique) programming language Zig announced an outright ban on anything from AI.

But for the moment there’s money to be made, and I do expect most of the US software industry, including Adobe, to destroy its own products through the practice of allowing AI to edit source code. It will be interesting to see whether the public retains its interest in AI or whether it turns against it. If the latter, I can see the US losing most of its export software industry (and also its film, television, music and publishing industries if the rot spreads there).
Apr 30, 2026 at 10:10 PM
chiron
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p.3 #19 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


ruthenium wrote:
Interesting that you mentioned the pencil, paper...
I have been recently reading about the school reform in Sweden:
"The Swedish government has committed over €100 million to bring back physical textbooks and reduce screen time in schools. The initiative, led by Education Minister Lotta Edholm, prioritizes handwriting, reading printed books, and teacher-led instruction over tablets and laptops.
This reversal has been unfolding throughout 2024 and 2025, with further initiatives aimed at 2026.
The changes are affecting preschools and primary schools, with new curricula designed to make cellphone use in schools virtually nonexistent in many areas."

I think this is a move in the...Show more →

---------------------------------------------

melcat wrote:
You omitted the punchline! He was strangled to death by a contraption he’d invented to get himself out of bed (he was partially paralysed).

There are already selective bans within the software industry itself, and the tipping point seems to be “security bug reports” generated by AIs that have been sucking all the maintainers’ time. Just in the last couple of days the stewards of the well-known (albeit boutique) programming language Zig announced an outright ban on anything from AI.

But for the moment there’s money to be made, and I do expect most of the US software industry, including Adobe, to...Show more →

Very selective list of examples. Same kind of negatives have been said about every new technology from computers and the internet itself all the way back to the invention of writing (see Plato's account of Socrates on writing).

New technologies are disruptive and are often superseded. But most of them get used and we adapt to them even as they change us and how we live. One of the most fundamental characteristics of humans is that we are tool-using (gear-forum, anyone?), which may even be linked evolutionarily to the development of language.

I find AI enormously powerful and useful, even at this early initial stage of its development. I think it just changes the way we think and use information; it doesn't replace thinking.

I do, however, very much like Sweden's educational reforms and their emphasis on non-screen, human-mediated learning.


May 02, 2026 at 06:38 AM
melcat
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p.3 #20 · Adobe is dying a slow painful death.


There are certainy valuable applications for AI. Just this week I read of the national parks in my state using it to identify endangered species in millions of images from trail cameras that had been collected – there were just too many for humans to do. (A trail camera is a camera left in a remote area which triggers when it detects motion.) I already have an app on my phone that I use to identify plants.

But if you ask me whether I want to look at a photo made by AI, the answer is “no”. If the AI is not sentient, what would be the point? Mere decoration?

Nor would I be interested in an opinionated essay written using an LLM. By its construction, it must be a conventional thinker, a mediocrity.
May 02, 2026 at 07:07 AM
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