p.6 #1 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Jase1125 wrote:
As much as my fellow fanboys like to defend Fuji, none would pick a Fuji if they had a single frame to capture and it be in focus as if their life depended on it.
Things aren’t quite that simple.
I’m currently on the road for over six weeks, and I chose my Fujifilm system over my other gear.
When it comes to AF, as I wrote earlier in this thread and elsewhere, he best from the other brands is better than what Fujifilm has. But Fujifilm AF does not “suck.” Can they and should Fujifilm continue to improve it? Yes.
If utter state-of-the-art AF is critically important for your photography and the only thing about it with that importance, you’ll likely pick another brand. If it is one of a plethora of considerations, that form your overall set of needs, maybe and maybe not.
p.6 #2 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Jase1125 wrote:
I am a Fuji fanboy. I love my X-Pro2 even though the X-T5 is superior in a number of ways. However, AF without question across all Fuji's (I had a X-T5) absolutely suck compared to my Sony. They aren't even remotely in the same universe. The Fuji can be worked around, but that is the thing - Sony requires NO work. It just nails it nearly every single time. If I am shooting fast moving action, birds in flight, etc then the keeper rate for Fuji is dramatically lower than Sony.
As much as my fellow fanboys like to defend Fuji, none would pick a Fuji if they had a single frame to capture and it be in focus as if their life depended on it. ...Show more →
Such emotive generalisation is less than helpful. Tell us how it fails for you.
p.6 #3 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Things aren’t quite that simple.
I’m currently on the road for over six weeks, and I chose my Fujifilm system over my other gear.
When it comes to AF, as I wrote earlier in this thread and elsewhere, he best from the other brands is better than what Fujifilm has. But Fujifilm AF does not “suck.” Can they and should Fujifilm continue to improve it? Yes.
If utter state-of-the-art AF is critically important for your photography and the only thing about it with that importance, you’ll likely pick another brand. If it is one of a plethora of considerations, that form your overall set of needs, maybe and maybe not....Show more →
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gyoung143 wrote:
Such emotive generalisation is less than helpful. Tell us how it fails for you.
Gerry
I did.... I said fast action and birds in flight. Nothing was overly emotive in my response. No unbiased photographer in the world will say Fuji AF is anywhere nearly as capable as Sony, Canon, Nikon. Can it be worked around - absolutely. That isn't the point. The point is Fuji is far behind what other brands are capable of achieving with AF. I prefer shooting my Fuji over my Sony. It is the camera I grab 80% of the time. I have sold more Fuji images and made more money off of them. However, if I am in a situation where I must get the shot and my opportunity is fleeting, then it is Sony. Wildlife it is Sony. I just don't understand the blind loyalty to any brand. I hate Sony ergonomics and clinical look. I hate editing color on my Sony. I typically disagree with Scott on many topics, but he is correct on this one. Fuji AF is serviceable, but many generations behind the other manufacturers.
p.6 #4 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Things aren’t quite that simple.
I’m currently on the road for over six weeks, and I chose my Fujifilm system over my other gear.
When it comes to AF, as I wrote earlier in this thread and elsewhere, he best from the other brands is better than what Fujifilm has. But Fujifilm AF does not “suck.” Can they and should Fujifilm continue to improve it? Yes.
If utter state-of-the-art AF is critically important for your photography and the only thing about it with that importance, you’ll likely pick another brand. If it is one of a plethora of considerations, that form your overall set of needs, maybe and maybe not....Show more →
It really is that simple. It sucks in certain scenarios and is found wanting. It is my choice for most of my photography too for a host of reasons, but AF certainly isn't one of them. Go shoot in flight songbirds and one will say it sucks because it does for that type of photography. That is why I own two systems. If it works for you for your style of photography then great. But it is generations behind compared to other systems.
p.6 #5 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Jase1125 wrote:
It really is that simple. It sucks in certain scenarios and is found wanting. It is my choice for most of my photography too for a host of reasons, but AF certainly isn't one of them. Go shoot in flight songbirds and one will say it sucks because it does for that type of photography. That is why I own two systems. If it works for you for your style of photography then great. But it is generations behind compared to other systems.
I have a Nikon setup for wildlife/sports/birds in flight but love Fuji for travel, street photography and backcountry hiking, and many of the things I might otherwise use my iPhone for, but with the benefit of more control over the image.
p.6 #6 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Eco-Scott wrote:
I have a Nikon setup for wildlife/sports/birds in flight but love Fuji for travel, street photography and backcountry hiking, and many of the things I might otherwise use my iPhone for, but with the benefit of more control over the image.
Yup, same for me. There is much to love about Fuji. In my opinion AF and X-Trans are not included.
I did.... I said fast action and birds in flight. Nothing was overly emotive in my response. No unbiased photographer in the world will say Fuji AF is anywhere nearly as capable as Sony, Canon, Nikon. Can it be worked around - absolutely. That isn't the point. The point is Fuji is far behind what other brands are capable of achieving with AF. I prefer shooting my Fuji over my Sony. It is the camera I grab 80% of the time. I have sold more Fuji images and made more money off of them. However, if I am in a situation where I must get the shot and my opportunity is fleeting, then it is Sony. Wildlife it is Sony. I just don't understand the blind loyalty to any brand. I hate Sony ergonomics and clinical look. I hate editing color on my Sony. I typically disagree with Scott on many topics, but he is correct on this one. Fuji AF is serviceable, but many generations behind the other manufacturers....Show more →
We are going round in circles, any idea what proportion of Fuji owners are interested in BiF? To say that Fuji AF bsucks is gross exaggeration, it is perfectly good enough for 99% of the work done by 99% of photographers. And Xt5 is not even the model aimed at that market, Xh2s seems to be it. When I used my Nikon DSLR it wasn't the model designed for fast action, D500 was. Things like the Z8 and Z9 might well be better at it, but they ought to be as they are designed for it, and are considerably more expensive.
All that nonsense about your life depending on it? If it's that important do it yourself, don't rely on software which might fail. A lot of photographers got sharp pictures of sport etc before AF was invented. Don't blame your tools for your own shortcomings.
p.6 #8 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gyoung143 wrote:
We are going round in circles, any idea what proportion of Fuji owners are interested in BiF? To say that Fuji AF bsucks is gross exaggeration, it is perfectly good enough for 99% of the work done by 99% of photographers. And Xt5 is not even the model aimed at that market, Xh2s seems to be it. When I used my Nikon DSLR it wasn't the model designed for fast action, D500 was. Things like the Z8 and Z9 might well be better at it, but they ought to be as they are designed for it, and are considerably more expensive.
All that nonsense about your life depending on it? If it's that important do it yourself, don't rely on software which might fail. A lot of photographers got sharp pictures of sport etc before AF was invented. Don't blame your tools for your own shortcomings.
p.6 #9 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
RoamingScott wrote:
When in doubt, just pull made up statistics out of your ass!
It's not a statistic, it's an educated guess, from some knowledge of retail sales, and a LOT of knowledge of pro photography. Even those who own long lenses rarely do such as BIF , for such things you need specialist knowledge of bird behaviour. A lot of such exotica goes to poseurs. One in a hundred is probaby generous figure.
p.6 #10 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gyoung143 wrote:
We are going round in circles, any idea what proportion of Fuji owners are interested in BiF? To say that Fuji AF bsucks is gross exaggeration, it is perfectly good enough for 99% of the work done by 99% of photographers. And Xt5 is not even the model aimed at that market, Xh2s seems to be it. When I used my Nikon DSLR it wasn't the model designed for fast action, D500 was. Things like the Z8 and Z9 might well be better at it, but they ought to be as they are designed for it, and are considerably more expensive.
All that nonsense about your life depending on it? If it's that important do it yourself, don't rely on software which might fail. A lot of photographers got sharp pictures of sport etc before AF was invented. Don't blame your tools for your own shortcomings.
You underestimate the percentage of wildlife photographers. Yes there aren’t Fuji wildlife photographers because Fuji cannot do it! The fact is Sony and others can do every scenario Fuji can do and more. Fuji AF sucks. It is fact and not a gross exaggeration when compared to the AF capabilities of the other manufacturers. I don’t have shortcomings the system does. Don’t personally attack because you are offended by someone’s opinion.
p.6 #11 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Jase1125 wrote:
I did.... I said fast action and birds in flight. Nothing was overly emotive in my response...
Heh:
Jase1125 wrote:
As much as my fellow fanboys like to defend Fuji, none would pick a Fuji if they had a single frame to capture and it be in focus as if their life depended on it.
Somehow — who knows how!? — the AF that “sucks” seems to work very well for a whole potion of my photography where the small Fujifilm body, the full manual controls, the excellent selection of small prime lenses, and more make it ideal.
If you want to say that Fujifilm AF is not as good as the best from Sony, Nikon, and Canon you will get no argument from me. Fujifilm would not be my first choice for bird photography, for example. (ou can do it, it just isn’t as good at it.)
But Fujifilm AF does not generically “suck.” I spent the day photographing with my XT5 today, and encountered no “sucking” AF at all. You would have a lot more credibility if you could let go of the hyperbolic language and just deal with the facts.
CaptainSnark wrote:
When in doubt, just pull made up statistics out of your ass!
On that subject, I concede your superior expertise.
- - -
IN all seriousness, if you are looking for state-of-the-art BIF system, you are probably looking at Sony, Nikon, or Canon these days — both for the edge in AF performance and the wider range of lenses for that subject.
Let’s say that street photography is your thing — there’s a very good chance that you might consider Fujifilm among the options. I chose it and it works damn well for that.
Something doesn’t “suck” in a general way because it is optimized for some things and not for others. A sedan doesn’t “suck” because it can’t carry a half ton of lumber, and a truck doesn’t suck because it isn’t all that aerodynamic. Horses for courses and all that.
p.6 #12 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Heh:
Somehow — who knows how!? — the AF that “sucks” seems to work very well for a whole potion of my photography where the small Fujifilm body, the full manual controls, the excellent selection of small prime lenses, and more make it ideal.
If you want to say that Fujifilm AF is not as good as the best from Sony, Nikon, and Canon you will get no argument from me. Fujifilm would not be my first choice for bird photography, for example. (ou can do it, it just isn’t as good at it.)
But Fujifilm AF does not generically “suck.” I spent the day photographing with my XT5 today, and encountered no “sucking” AF at all. You would have a lot more credibility if you could let go of the hyperbolic language and just deal with the facts.
On that subject, I concede your superior expertise.
- - -
IN all seriousness, if you are looking for state-of-the-art BIF system, you are probably looking at Sony, Nikon, or Canon these days — both for the edge in AF performance and the wider range of lenses for that subject.
Let’s say that street photography is your thing — there’s a very good chance that you might consider Fujifilm among the options. I chose it and it works damn well for that.
Something doesn’t “suck” in a general way because it is optimized for some things and not for others. A sedan doesn’t “suck” because it can’t carry a half ton of lumber, and a truck doesn’t suck because it isn’t all that aerodynamic. Horses for courses and all that....Show more →
No, I say it sucks because it is inferior to nearly every modern camera in both AF-S and AF-C. Like I said it is possible to work with it, but the others excel in every type of AF scenario compared to Fuji. It is just more glaringly obvious for BIF. This is why I shoot two systems because Fuji was awful at it. Fuji also advertises to wildlife and bird photographers. So the uninitiated drops money expecting it to work only to learn there are a lot of compromises with Fuji. Sure you can get some birds in flight with their 150-600, but it pales in comparison to Sony, Nikon, canon, etc.
Guess what - we are expressing opinions. There is no standard objective criteria of what sucks and doesn’t suck. Sure Fuji works well for street photography. But there are others much better and more capable. Furthermore your car vs truck example doesn’t really hold up. The comparison is like models of trucks. The Fuji is like an anemic 4 cylinder naturally aspirated engine trying to pull a cattle trailer. It sucks doing what other trucks do well. You are simplifying it down by saying it does not suck because it starts and drives down the road. Of course when most of us find Fuji wanting and saying it sucks is because we are comparing to other brands. Things that most other brands do easily and Fuji struggles.
p.6 #14 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Well I don't have any trouble with af-s, never have, works fine. Can't see how anything can be better than no problems. If I did then I wouldn't have bought Fuji in the first place as I had loan of a friend's camera before I spent my own money.
p.6 #15 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
I see plenty of wildlife stuff in the Fuji XH2 and 2S facebook group so you honestly need to cut the hyperbole. Jase1125 wrote:
You underestimate the percentage of wildlife photographers. Yes there aren’t Fuji wildlife photographers because Fuji cannot do it! The fact is Sony and others can do every scenario Fuji can do and more. Fuji AF sucks. It is fact and not a gross exaggeration when compared to the AF capabilities of the other manufacturers. I don’t have shortcomings the system does. Don’t personally attack because you are offended by someone’s opinion.
p.6 #16 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
I could've waited for the X-T6 before selling my Fuji gear but cannot really take a chance on Fuji implementing good AF in the future, as it was very hit or miss on the X-T4 and I had to get what I can get from it right now. Could've definitely kept my lenses and sold them near the launch though for more return in investment.
p.6 #17 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Ultimate22 wrote:
I could've waited for the X-T6 before selling my Fuji gear but cannot really take a chance on Fuji implementing good AF in the future, as it was very hit or miss on the X-T4 and I had to get what I can get from it right now. Could've definitely kept my lenses and sold them near the launch though for more return in investment.
Did you consider xh2s? Designed for the job.
p.6 #18 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Manual focus does not work for something like BIF or fast-moving sports; that's with 100% certainty. Fuji silver cameras definitely have naturally coolness factor and most of their cameras are fun to shoot, but they're not made for everything, that's for sure.
p.6 #19 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Not hyperbole but just facts. I never said it is impossible for someone to get wildlife or birds in flight. I have quite a catalog of them with Fuji myself. However, as a tool compared to the same tool made by other manufacturers it is substandard. When you strip away the brand loyalty and look at the technical benchmarks for high-speed tracking and wildlife photography, Fuji just cannot compete with the others. Both the X-T5 and X-H2s can struggle to maintain focus during erratic movement compared to the dedicated AI processing units in competitors. This is well documented by reviewers and users.
