p.1 #2 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
In my opinion 28/2.8 Color-Skopar adapts pretty well but it's still necessary to stop down to f8 for best corner-to-corner results (extreme corners improve until f8). I've had all of them in VM / LTM and only used them adapted. 28/2.8 Type II is also the smallest and lightest of the CV options.
From the current VM lineup I've only kept the 28/2.8 VM, but it's in part because 28/1.5 and 28/2 APO were released as native E-mount options and I got both of those. I still found 28/2.8 to be the most appealing option when adapting. It does have relatively high vignetting though.
p.1 #3 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Knut. wrote:
With the
90mm/f4 Apo Lanthar (upcoming)
50mm/f3.5 Apo Lanthar
There is only an excellent 28mm missing to have a very light weight solution for e-mount as well.
Unfortunately the 28mm is the achilles heel: Which one of the Voigtländer m-mount lenses adapts best to e-mount?
Unfortunately, there really isn't a perfect option. As Juha mentioned, the Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar is probably the least compromised of the bunch when adapted to Sony's thicker sensor stack, but even it falls well short of an ideal match.
I think compatibility would be better if Cosina were to release an updated version of the 28mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar. Its slower maximum aperture would allow it to work better with thicker stacks.
p.1 #4 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
I think a new 28/3.5 VM is not very likely since Cosina already has 4 different 28mm VM lenses in production (since 28/2 Ultron is also making a comeback) and since 28/2.8 Type II is already so light and small.
On the other hand I think a small new pancake style 28/2.x to go along with Septon 40/2 in E and Z is highly likely so that could become the best small/light option for E-mount in the future.
I recently got the Color-Skopar 28/2.8 SLIIN in Canon EF-mount (adapting to Sony with Sigma MC-11). I think it's not as good as 28/2.8 VM on Sony overall (esp. at infinity) but pretty nice in the close range (that version focuses to 0.22m). It's not small and light when adapted though.
p.1 #5 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
You could try a PCX front filter with one of the 28s. Then it'd be usable on both with some easy additions/subtractions. I'll admit, I felt like it wasn't a great compromise when I tried it with the Elmarit-M 24, solving one problem while creating others, but it worked for some lenses from the reports in the old thread here.
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p.1 #6 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Knut. wrote:
With the
90mm/f4 Apo Lanthar (upcoming)
50mm/f3.5 Apo Lanthar
There is only an excellent 28mm missing to have a very light weight solution for e-mount as well.
Unfortunately the 28mm is the achilles heel: Which one of the Voigtländer m-mount lenses adapts best to e-mount?
I would add to your list the VM 75 f/2.8 APO Skopar, and the VM 21 f/3.5, 15 f/4.5, 12 f/5.6 and 10 f/5.6, although they don't have the optical perfection of the 3 small APO lenses, are small and all perform as well or almost as well on mirrorless as they do on Leica M cameras.
Notably missing is a 28mm and 35mm that is small and peforms well on mirrorless cameras. So, you have a choice to make with E mount either go with a larger lens optimized for the mirrorless mount (the 28 f/2 APO Lanthar and the 35 f/2 APO Lanthar both have fantastic performance) or a smaller lens that performs less than optimally on mirrorless (the VM 28 f/2.8 and VM 35 f/3.5 are both very tiny but the performance of both suffer quite a bit on mirrorless).
I don't see this situation as likely to change any time soon, but you never know with Cosina. Even with four VM 28mm lenses and seven VM 35mm lenses, they might make a 28mm or 35mm f/3.5 APO Lanthar that works well on mirrorless as well. I wouldn't hold my breath for such lenses, but we can always hope.
p.1 #7 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
The original 28/1.9 does pretty well, I bought it originally to use on film with M6ttl and M3, and used it happily on the original Sony A7 when I had it. Continue to use it on Fuji even now. It was highly regarded in its day, later beaten by the first Leica aspheric 28mm and no doubt by later Voigtlanders, but I like it.
p.1 #8 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
I have the original 28/1.9 LTM, 28/3.5 LTM and also had the first gen 28/2 VM but all of them are weaker on stopped down corner to corner sharpness (on Sony) than the current 28/2.8 VM. I enjoyed the 28/1.9 a lot on my NEX-6 back in the old days though.
I think the current 28/2.8 works quite well on Sony if one is OK with stopping down to f8 for infinity shots. I would usually stop down with native lenses for those type of shots too, but preferably no further than f5.6. With my native Nokton 28/1.5 E version I stop down to f5.6 and with APO-Lanthar to f4. In bokeh / wide open shots I never see any problems with the 28/2.8.
I believe corner-to-corner performance at wider apertures on 28/2.8 will be better on a native digital M but it doesn't really mean that it is problematic in real life use on E. I enjoy shooting with it on my A7CII and can ram it to hard infinity for long distance shots with the right adapters which can't be done with the native E-mount 28mm lenses (since those have some buffer allowing focusing beyond infinity). It works well as a small adapted option.
I also have various other small rangefinder lenses at 28mm (4 from MS-Optics, Minolta M-Rokkor, 2 versions of Avenon 28/3.5). None are better than the 28/2.8 VM in terms of corner-to-corner sharpness on Sony but they have other interesting character traits.
p.1 #9 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Juha, your post above is helpful because I'm trying to fit out my A7R5 for every-day-carry without giant (heavy, scary) glass. I posted in the Sony forum yesterday to ask which 21mm f3.5 - Cosina or Voigtlander (fares better with the Sony sensor. 21mm makes the final winner useful on my XPro-2, too. I love the quality of the Sony files and the features of the body, but the XP2 just feels better going out the door. (40mm field of view and I don't get along and I used an M2 with a Summicron for 25 years back in the day.)
If Cosina's current 28mm f2.8 is better on Sony than either of the 21mm's I might give up the benefit of use on both bodies to have a good solution for the Sony.
p.1 #11 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Actually, the best solution would be, if Cosina could offer compact versions of the following three lenses in native e-mount:
28/2.8 (or 28/3.5)
50/3.5 Apo Lanthar
90/4 Apo Lanthar
Keeping my fingers crossed, do not know how realistic these expectations are.
p.1 #12 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I think a new 28/3.5 VM is not very likely since Cosina already has 4 different 28mm VM lenses in production (since 28/2 Ultron is also making a comeback) and since 28/2.8 Type II is already so light and small.
On the other hand I think a small new pancake style 28/2.x to go along with Septon 40/2 in E and Z is highly likely so that could become the best small/light option for E-mount in the future.
I recently got the Color-Skopar 28/2.8 SLIIN in Canon EF-mount (adapting to Sony with Sigma MC-11). I think it's not as good as 28/2.8 VM on Sony overall (esp. at infinity) but pretty nice in the close range (that version focuses to 0.22m). It's not small and light when adapted though....Show more →
I agree it's highly unlikely that Cosina would introduce a 28mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar, especially considering how compact their current 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar is and how well it performs. But, if they ever surprised us with a slower f/3.5 design, it could potentially offer greater flexibility to varying sensor stack thicknesses, much like their excellent 21mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar does today.
p.1 #13 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
MaunaKea7007 wrote:
Juha, your post above is helpful because I'm trying to fit out my A7R5 for every-day-carry without giant (heavy, scary) glass. I posted in the Sony forum yesterday to ask which 21mm f3.5 - Cosina or Voigtlander (fares better with the Sony sensor. 21mm makes the final winner useful on my XPro-2, too. I love the quality of the Sony files and the features of the body, but the XP2 just feels better going out the door. (40mm field of view and I don't get along and I used an M2 with a Summicron for 25 years back in the day.)
If Cosina's current 28mm f2.8 is better on Sony than either of the 21mm's I might give up the benefit of use on both bodies to have a good solution for the Sony. ...Show more →
Fred has tested 21/3.5 VM on Sony A7RII and digital Leica M and found the results to be equally good on both bodies (as linked in your thread, https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1647789/1#15241068). I have personally only used the native 21/3.5 E-mount version on my Sony cameras, even though I had the VM version as well for a while (I only used it on my Sigma fp).
21/3.5 VM is one of those VMs that is not worse at all when adapted on Sony compared to native M-mount performance, so it's hard to say that 28/2.8 would be better on Sony, but they are fairly different focal lengths. I like 28mm as a general purpose walk-around lens and 21mm doesn't quite cover the same kind of use case for me (although it could when adapted to APS-C). I usually shoot my 21/3.5 native E-mount version stopped down to f6.3 or f7.1 and I mainly only use it for stopped down long distance shooting (cityscapes) as I don't find it as useful for wide open close range shots. The close range bokeh shots at f3.5 are not very appealing to me. I use 28mm a lot more often than 21mm for general walk-around shooting.
I have no experience with the Thypoch 21mm lens (the comparison subject in your thread) at all.
p.1 #14 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
I remember reading an article from Lensrental that the 28 Summilux M performed surprising well on Sony sensor, which was just a smidge smeared over the corners wide open when pixel peeping side by side.
p.1 #15 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Knut. wrote:
Actually, the best solution would be, if Cosina could offer compact versions of the following three lenses in native e-mount:
28/2.8 (or 28/3.5)
50/3.5 Apo Lanthar
90/4 Apo Lanthar
Keeping my fingers crossed, do not know how realistic these expectations are.
As far as I know, they have no plans for the slower APO-Lanthars for FF mirrorless currently, at least that's what they told met at CP+ when I asked about whether 70/2.8 and 90/4 would also be made for mirrorless. I believe they would instead expand the current mirrorless APO-Lanthar f2 line with something longer than 50mm (maybe 75mm or 90mm) at some point.
On the other hand, I think they will be interested in bringing out some more small and light lenses for mirrorless FF going forward since they already have a pretty complete lineup of fast Noktons (not so small and light) there (esp. in E-mount) and there would be more room for some small and compact options. There's clear market interest in pancake lenses too. Septon 40/2 is a step in that direction and I'm pretty sure more will come along the same lines (hopefully a 28/2.x next), but it will probably not include small APO lenses in the near future at least.
They did say that they have a lot of ideas for new lenses in E-mount too so I think something new will keep coming, and I'm expecting more focus on smaller/lighter lenses. If they received a lot of customer requests for those small APO-Lanthars in FF mirrorless they might start considering those as well...
Personally I also have the 50/3.5 APO-Lanthar (Two Tone Type I version) as well and I'm also quite interested in the 90/4. I was impressed by it when I tried it at CP+ on my A7CII.
p.1 #16 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree it's highly unlikely that Cosina would introduce a 28mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar, especially considering how compact their current 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar is and how well it performs. But, if they ever surprised us with a slower f/3.5 design, it could potentially offer greater flexibility to varying sensor stack thicknesses, much like their excellent 21mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar does today.
I suppose the 21/3.5 was designed from the start with both E-mount and M in mind since Cosina released a version first in E-mount in 2018 and then the VM Type I in 2019 (with same optical design on paper, and possibly it didn't even need any optimization for sensor stack thickness). If they designed a new 28/3.5 in similar way for multiple mounts, the VM version could also be highly adaptable.
However, personally I'd prefer to see a faster 28mm f2.8 or even f2.4 fully optimized for FF mirrorless but still in compact form (like Septon 40/2 size) next. I would be perfectly happy if they took the design of current 28/2.8 VM and optimized it for Sony E and Nikon Z.
p.1 #18 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
freaklikeme wrote:
Barring any help from Cosina on the matter, I think the real answer is to buy the AL 28/2 in both mounts. That's what we did.
I believe Knut already has 28/2 AL in E-mount (he's been involved in related 28/2 AL E-mount / Z-mount discussion thread) but here I think he's looking for a very compact lens set that could be used on Sony for some specific purpose (travel kit?) while still having best possible IQ, so it should be smaller than 28/2 AL...
I also had 28/2 AL in VM and then in E, wouldn't recommend the VM version for E use as field curvature was quite pronounced and there wouldn't be a lot of weight saved with an adapter, compared to native E version. I would fully recommend the E-mount version for E users if size/weight is not a problem.
p.1 #19 · Which Voigtländer 28mm m-mount lens shows least corner smearing on e-mount?
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I believe Knut already has 28/2 AL in E-mount (he's been involved in related 28/2 AL E-mount / Z-mount discussion thread) but here I think he's looking for a very compact lens set that could be used on Sony for some specific purpose (travel kit?) while still having best possible IQ, so it should be smaller than 28/2 AL...
I also had 28/2 AL in VM and then in E, wouldn't recommend the VM version for E use as field curvature was quite pronounced and there wouldn't be a lot of weight saved with an adapter, compared to native E version. I would fully recommend the E-mount version for E users if size/weight is not a problem....Show more →
Yes I do have the 28/2 in e-mount 😉,
and you have nailed my motives quite well. 😁
Maybe I just have to add some small information to my (inner) thoughts:
I would really like an extremely compact and lightweight setup (as it is available for m-mount) for e-mount. If there was a 50/3.5 Apo Lanthar and a 90/4 Apo Lanthar in e-mount I would be more than happy to just add the 28/2 Apo Lanthar in e-mount and be done. It would be my perfect landscape and cityscape travel setup. I wouldn‘t mind the 28mm to be a bit heavier (but of course I would prefer a 28/3.5 Apo Lanthar).
Alas, I fear that the 50/3.5 and 90/4 Apo Lanthars will not come for e-mount. Thus, a viable alternative would be to stick an m- to e-mount adapter to the body and just swap different m-mount lenses. I personally find it confusing to mix lenses with and without adapters in the field. In practice I try to stick to either a set of adapted lenses, or a set of native lenses in my camera bag. (Pentax 31-43-77 on a Monster adapter is another set that I love to use when bokeh and smooth transitions are paramount).
For landscape:
E-mount 28/2 Apo Lanthar + e-mount 50/2 Apo Lanthar plus M-mount 90/4 Apo Lanthar adapted to e-mount could be a solution as well, but it is not as compact as I would like. Shaving 400g on the 28+50 together would be nice.
I guess the aim is highest (Apo Lanthar) quality for a 28-50-90 setup that weighs less than a kilo including camera.
Since I‘m e-mount based I‘m looking for a solution in e-mount.
