AcuteShadows
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 Re: FM Review: Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton | |
Fred Miranda wrote:
AcuteShadows wrote:
Fred Miranda wrote:
AcuteShadows wrote:
Steve Spencer wrote:
Fred Miranda wrote:
Steve,
I do think the Leica M sensor stack is the thinnest we have and in general M lenses perform their best on M camera bodies (There are exceptions though). Even the SL/SL2 sensor stack is thicker than the Leica M.
The stack thickness from both Sony and Nikon Z sensors seem to be similar as you reported. (Sony manufactures sensors for Nikon)
I've seen some reports showing Loxia lenses performing a tad better on the Nikon body but I have never tested this myself. Perhaps any difference could also be attributed to mount to sensor and/or adapter tolerance.
Yes, Fred, I totally agree with what you said here. Your thread on Leica M lenses that also perform well on Sony cameras has been very useful, and I think there are a number of lenses that do as well on Sony cameras as on the Leica M as you have shown (and I reported on a number of lenses as well). That said the corners of the M version of the CV 21 f/1.4 seem to be noticeably worse on a Sony than on a Leica, whereas the E mount version of the CV 21 f/1.4 has wonderful corners from pretty much wide open. So, IMO, it is a lens that benefits from getting the Sony E mount version rather than just using the M mount version on Sony. Of course, other may care less about the corners and are fine with the M version on Sony.
I also have now shot a bunch of E mount lenses (Loxia 21, Loxia, 25, Loxia 50, Loxia 85, Voigtlander 21 f/1.4, Voigtlander 40 f/1.2, Voigtlander 65 f/2 APO, Voigtlander 110 f/2.5 APO) on both the Sony A7r II and the Nikon Z7 and I have yet to see any substantial difference in how the lenses perform on the two cameras. The results have always been very very similar. This suggests to me that the Leica M version of the 21 f/1.4 would likely perform like it does on Sony sensors, (excellent in the center and even edges, but a noticeably drop in performance in the corners) on the Z7 as well. I haven't tested that so I may be wrong, but I suspect the Sony E mount version is likely noticeably better on the Z7 (I know my Sony E mount is excellent all the way to the corners on my Z7) in the corners at wider apertures (but probably only there), than the Leica M version is on the Z7.
It's perfectly possible that the Sony sensor is closer to the Nikon Z sensor, and that E lenses may be the better choice on the Nikon Z. Yet my experience with M lenses differs from what i hear and see about the performance of M lenses on Sony bodies. Maybe it's not sensor thickness, but the microlens array. I'm not willing to do a cut-out of my Z7, but would be very interested in what actually causes the different results.
IMO the stack thickness is the major culprit. Microlenses design play a part too.
If a lens is optimized for a thin sensor and it's used on a thicker one, there will be induced field curvature. I believe the second best camera to use with M lenses is the Leica SL series but it's still not perfect. Sony and Fuji are two of the worst.
In the case of E-mount lenses, they are optimized for Sony sensors and Nikon uses Sony, so they are pretty much compatible. Perhaps not perfect with all lenses though.
I think I ultimately need to buy a Sony camera just to find out what the actual differences between both sensors are with regard to M lenses.
In the meantime, I've started some tests here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1647789
Voigtländer 21mm f/1.4 on the Nikon Z7 at f/1.4. Distance is 50 to 100 meters, rather than infinity. First image is from the extreme corner, second is from about 4mm up on the edge. The Leica sensor is probably still better. However, I didn't by the Voigtländer in order to shoot f/1.4 at infinity, but because it probably has one of the more distant exit pupils (i.e. virtual origin of exiting light rays) of the smaller wide-angle lenses.
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