Fred Miranda wrote:
I've been enjoying your CV 21/1.4 Nokton images! There is a lot of pop, especially when the subject is a mid-distance.
I had the E-mount for many years years and just ordered the M version.
I am curious how it compares to the Leica 21/3.4 at ~ f/5.6.
Thanks! I think you'll really like it on your M cameras. I'll be very curious to see that comparison with the Leica. Do you also have the CV 21/3.5? All three compared would be epic.
This weekend, I took out the M10M w/50 Cron and threw the 21/1.4 and 75/1.5 in the bag just in case. Didn't end up using anything but the 50, but the bag was still pretty light with the camera in hand and the other two in the bag.
Is anyone using VM version on the Sony (A7RII)? I’ve seen the comparison and understand that the corner performance on the Sony isn’t great, but I wonder how bad it is in practice?
I don’t have a digital Leica M body, but I also shoot film and use my Voigtländer lenses (15/4.5 III, 21/3.5, 35/1.2, 35/2, 75/2.5) on both film and digital. I also see great images from SL2 and Z7 in this post and I like keeping my digital options open with VM lenses that are easier to migrate to another system.
matt-to wrote:
If you don't need 1.4, the Loxia is a no brainer. I have the Voigtlander because I wanted the extra speed, otherwise would have got the Loxia.
krylovsk wrote:
Is anyone using VM version on the Sony (A7RII)? I’ve seen the comparison and understand that the corner performance on the Sony isn’t great, but I wonder how bad it is in practice?
I don’t have a digital Leica M body, but I also shoot film and use my Voigtländer lenses (15/4.5 III, 21/3.5, 35/1.2, 35/2, 75/2.5) on both film and digital. I also see great images from SL2 and Z7 in this post and I like keeping my digital options open with VM lenses that are easier to migrate to another system.
I found this review: https://hitechglitz.com/voigtlander-nokton-21mm-f1-4-aspherical-review-2020/
The reviewer is using VM version on A7C but it lacks samples to properly judge performance and it mentions the optical design is the same for both VM and E-mount versions, which doesn’t seem to be the case based on the Fred’s comparison.
I just bought a Nokton 21 VM lens. I tend to shoot in dark places, so wide open performance is important to me. Can you help me determine if I have a bad copy of the lens. In the composite image below, Nokton on the left and Summilux 24 on the right, both shot at f1.4 from a tripod. These are small crops from the center of the image. Does the Nokton look hazy/blurry/less sharp than the Lux? I see 'glow' on the white letters on the spine of the black book. Is this normal, or do I have a less-than-optimal copy of the Nokton?
You may have to open in new tab and zoom in to 100% to really see it.
krylovsk wrote:
I found this review: https://hitechglitz.com/voigtlander-nokton-21mm-f1-4-aspherical-review-2020/
The reviewer is using VM version on A7C but it lacks samples to properly judge performance and it mentions the optical design is the same for both VM and E-mount versions, which doesn’t seem to be the case based on the Fred’s comparison.
MPB (something like european KEH) posted the VM version in as-new condition for 800 EUR and I couldn’t resist, this is a great price for the used E-mount version and VM is generally more expensive.
Having high expectations for the lens after reading all the reviews including this thread, I am still impressed by it. The copy I‘ve got is not perfectly centered, but it is within acceptable margin *to me*.
I don’t have a digital M to compare and I’m lazy to do tests with film, but here’s my summary of infinity resolution tests of the Nokton 21mm f1.4 VM on A7RII using the Color-Skopar 21mm f3.5 VM as a reference:
- @f2.4 the extreme corners of the Nokton are acceptably sharp *to me*, close to the @f3.5 of the Color-Skopar; there’s also no CA to talk about at this point
- @f4 Nokton corner performance *to me* is great and it surpasses the Color-Skopar at the same aperture
- there are marginal improvements from there up to @f8 for both lenses with Nokton always staying ahead
Overall, I’m positively impressed with the Nokton VM on (stock) A7RII. „Bad corner performance“ is certainly not something I would describe it, but I guess my frame of reference is different. I don’t have GM lenses to compare and when I think about „bad corner performance“ it‘s e.g. LTM Heliar 15mm f5.6 (original version) compared to the Heliar III VM.
I would say 21/1.4 on A7RII behaves very similarly to other CV VM lenses that I have (21/3.5, 35/1.2II, 35/2) when stopping down in the corners, while performing better in the center at wider apertures. I can imagine on the M or modified Sony camera it’s even better, but even the current behavior *to me* is already great.
The nokton seems to be slightly back-focused to me, which explains the blurry letters. If you focused with rangefinder it could be rangefinder coupling misalignment in the lens that needs calibration.
I fear mine has the same issue because on A7RII it reaches infinity focus shortly after 5m indicator, which is way off compared to my other CV lenses. I guess I’ll need to waste a roll of film to find out.
goldscott wrote:
Hi All,
I just bought a Nokton 21 VM lens. I tend to shoot in dark places, so wide open performance is important to me. Can you help me determine if I have a bad copy of the lens. In the composite image below, Nokton on the left and Summilux 24 on the right, both shot at f1.4 from a tripod. These are small crops from the center of the image. Does the Nokton look hazy/blurry/less sharp than the Lux? I see 'glow' on the white letters on the spine of the black book. Is this normal, or do I have a less-than-optimal copy of the Nokton?
You may have to open in new tab and zoom in to 100% to really see it.
Fred, given the optical formulas are different, do you know how the VM 21/1.4 does with coma WO and into the corners? The e-mount cleans up around f2.2 which I found disappointing so I never purchased.
krylovsk wrote:
MPB (something like european KEH) posted the VM version in as-new condition for 800 EUR and I couldn’t resist, this is a great price for the used E-mount version and VM is generally more expensive.
Having high expectations for the lens after reading all the reviews including this thread, I am still impressed by it. The copy I‘ve got is not perfectly centered, but it is within acceptable margin *to me*.
I don’t have a digital M to compare and I’m lazy to do tests with film, but here’s my summary of infinity resolution tests of the Nokton 21mm f1.4 VM on A7RII using the Color-Skopar 21mm f3.5 VM as a reference:
- @f2.4 the extreme corners of the Nokton are acceptably sharp *to me*, close to the @f3.5 of the Color-Skopar; there’s also no CA to talk about at this point
- @f4 Nokton corner performance *to me* is great and it surpasses the Color-Skopar at the same aperture
- there are marginal improvements from there up to @f8 for both lenses with Nokton always staying ahead
Overall, I’m positively impressed with the Nokton VM on (stock) A7RII. „Bad corner performance“ is certainly not something I would describe it, but I guess my frame of reference is different. I don’t have GM lenses to compare and when I think about „bad corner performance“ it‘s e.g. LTM Heliar 15mm f5.6 (original version) compared to the Heliar III VM.
I would say 21/1.4 on A7RII behaves very similarly to other CV VM lenses that I have (21/3.5, 35/1.2II, 35/2) when stopping down in the corners, while performing better in the center at wider apertures. I can imagine on the M or modified Sony camera it’s even better, but even the current behavior *to me* is already great....Show more →
Yes, at f/8 DOF masks the induced FC, so that's expected. Pretty much all M lenses perform ok on the stock Sony sensor at f/8.
However, at wide apertures, the CV 21/1.4 Nokton does not perform equally as wrote previously. That's misinformation.
I just did a quick test with the CV 21/1.4 Nokton on the Sony A7R II Kolari UT (which performs similarly to my Leica M10-R) versus the same lens on the Sony A7R IIIa (stock). Same exact LR settings for both images.
That's what to expect in the corners wide open. There is a lack of contrast and drop in resolution for the stock sensor. Definitely not similar performance... I wish it was.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Fred, given the optical formulas are different, do you know how the VM 21/1.4 does with coma WO and into the corners? The e-mount cleans up around f2.2 which I found disappointing so I never purchased.
Hi Nehemiah,
I have never tested the CV 21/1.4 'M-mount' for coma but expect similar performance to E-mount on Sony. Will do a test on the M10-R.
The E-mount version performs just as you described in regards to coma. It's good starting at f/2.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I have never tested the CV 21/1.4 M-mount for coma. Will do on the M10-R.
The E-mount version performs just as you described. It's good starting at f/2.
Yeah, it would have been a very attractive option if the 21/1.4 was very good coma wise (like the 24 GM/20 G) WO. Thanks for checking for me
