It depends how much weight you place on size/weight against performance, it's a very good lens. And what you measure it against. 480g is heavy for a Voigtlander, and 62mm filters are an odd size.
In a very different lens I'm waiting on, the Simera 21/1.4 cine lens is lighter in M-mount with a 62mm filter thread and 0.23m MFD, very important for cine. Same size as the CV with gearing etc. I expect it be around 400g in stills form, for another data point in fast MF lenses with more character than the major brands.
philip_pj wrote:
It depends how much weight you place on size/weight against performance, it's a very good lens. And what you measure it against. 480g is heavy for a Voigtlander, and 62mm filters are an odd size.
In a very different lens I'm waiting on, the Simera 21/1.4 cine lens is lighter in M-mount with a 62mm filter thread and 0.23m MFD, very important for cine. Same size as the CV with gearing etc. I expect it be around 400g in stills form, for another data point in fast MF lenses with more character than the major brands.
I am waiting for this lens as well. Have you received any indication of when it might be released?
Andrew CD wrote:
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It’s a fabulous lens, for sure, I had exactly the same thought. @Al Trujillo@ , it’s the CV Nokton 21mm f/1.4, yes? Everything is relative, I suppose, it is small compared to quite a number of autofocus Sony lenses (not to mention DSLR ones).
Edit to add: I also thought the racetrack photo was fantastic, a perfect example of why I like the 21mm focal length so much. It has been a pleasure to look at this thread again recently.
It really is relative to prior experiences. After carrying three Zeiss Milvus lenses in my bag for a couple of years the CV's are very pleasing to hold.
Thypoch have more of an engineering mindset, not keen on raising expectations. It will just appear with a few weeks' notice. I'll ask the distributor on Tuesday, sometimes they hear before the next show comes along. They have an (over-active) Instagram account too.
Thinking about it, Cosina is much the same re 'teasing'. On size and weight, I kind of have an extra allowance for the great ones, 100 grams or so. We are emerging from an era of overweight mirrorless-unfriendly MF lenses after all, and 480g is still lighter than the cameras. It's fine.
Some wide Summiluxes are pretty heavy too. Their 21/1.4 has an MFD of 0.7m, no filter thread (there is a fussy workaround), 580 grams. Times are changing fast, many are coming to use spherical 21mm lenses instead of anamorphics. Stills users can benefit from using 21s with closer image content..as well as expansive subject matter.
Robin Smith wrote:
24, 40, 50Gs, 35 2.8 ZA etc are what I’d call small in Sony land.
Those are all small but also have a much narrower aperture than the 21 f/1.4 described in this thread. If you want small and a fast aperture, then the Sony lenses you mentioned won't do. The Sony lens that begins to compete with the 21 f/1.4 is the 24 f/1.4 GM. It is physically bigger than the Voigtlander 21 f/1.4, but just a bit lighter. The Sony 20 f/1.8 G is also a competitor with a similar physical size, a lighter weight, but a 2/3 stop slower aperture.
The German and German inspired makers seemed to always put more into the 21mm FL than the 24mm lenses. In small ranges, the jump is 21mm to 28mm. In large lens ranges, we see 25mm, traditionally another favourite FL.
But all being said, the select f1.4 21mm manual focus group are a genre apart, particularly if the maker provides a short MFD and reasonable distortion control. They need to be complex and they require top glass. It's the only lens type I feel comfortable seeing two asph elements inside (!).
F1.4 light handling is such a bonus for available light interiors and nothing compares to their bokeh, and ability to link backgrounds to subjects. Not for everyone and that also sets them apart, so they are a great creative tool providing something very different.
Just got this lens and wow, its rendering is amazing! No, these shots aren't anything to write home about, but I can tell this one will become a favorite of mine already.
Hodie wrote:
Just got this lens and wow, its rendering is amazing! No, these shots aren't anything to write home about, but I can tell this one will become a favorite of mine already.
Based on the previous photos, it looks like the Nokton and the upcoming Simera are pretty much the same size. They even appear almost identical in terms of dimensions.
The CV 21/1.4 is essentially a square, at 70mm x 70mm.
The Summilux 21/1.4 is close at 70mm x 66mm.
The Simera-C 21/T1.5 is already small, at 67mm x 69mm.
They weigh 480g, 580g and 470g respectively. So the Simera-C is lightest and equally sized, even before its stills-induced dietary makeover. The C version is a chunky barrel, the Simera 21/1.4 barrel is sleeved down in the middle and rear, and the thin focus rings will help too, against the geared rings of the C.
It has 62mm filters like the CV, and it may be that they used the CV lens as a source guide, I'm certain they would be impressed with it. They also share the 13/11 config. Probably has the 14 blade aperture fitted, not the 16. I'd prefer the 16 blader as close focus fast 21s can generate a lot of highlight balls. I notice a gain in the 16 blade Sim 75/1.4 compared to the Sim 50/1.4.
My guess is 420g or so in M-mount. It uses a nice touch in the tidy hood, reminiscent of the Summilux and CV. (B&H list that Summilux with 'Filter Size: No', but no way would DZO/Thypoch do such a thing.) Black front ring too.
All are armed to the teeth with high spec glass, so what separates them is the house style, and what the designers intended as their main usage. I shoot lots of indoors and people, so it's the Simera for me unless they mess it up. I figure all 21s can do what the others do, and I like the Sim 28/1.4 look and lack of CA.
(Sigma make a gigantor 950g 20mm f1.4 and Sony do a light (375g), 2/3 slower 20mm f1.8G, both AF.) I think that rounds it out, for now at least.
Yeah, looking at the other Simera C to Still conversions, they slimmed down a bit and weighed a bit less, so I was hoping it's the same with the 21mm.
I like the Simera 28mm's a touch warmer rendering vs VM, if the 21mm has the same trend, then I most likely will get the Simera.
Philip, you have all the other 3 Simeras, right? (28,50,75)
philip_pj wrote:
The CV 21/1.4 is essentially a square, at 70mm x 70mm.
The Summilux 21/1.4 is close at 70mm x 66mm.
The Simera-C 21/T1.5 is already small, at 67mm x 69mm.
They weigh 480g, 580g and 470g respectively. So the Simera-C is lightest and equally sized, even before its stills-induced dietary makeover. The C version is a chunky barrel, the Simera 21/1.4 barrel is sleeved down in the middle and rear, and the thin focus rings will help too, against the geared rings of the C.
Yes, Nick, against all advice you hear I bought them, having seen a couple of posters with them here and generally favorable responses. I guess I trust my eyes, and I love the movie look. And I am moving into more people photography, even as most stills people seem to be moving away from it.
The 28mm is one some think is less good than the 50/75. But it's boisterous and the color palette suits me fine, it's a fine street lens, they all are. And I've yet to see CA in the 28mm.
The 21mm I feel I know already from the cine version used in a few YT videos, it has that same 'immediacy', a kind of close presence, that the 28mm has. They are all lenses I can 'expand' with, because they cover a lot of usage needs for travel, and light enough too.
I have a hunch, really an informed guess, that DZO are, in Chinese fashion, using the same basic formula from the Arles cine range for these latter Simeras. They are very cinematic, ultra smooth. They have an Arles 100/1.4, a gorgeous lens. If they ever make a 100/1.4 in Simera I'll buy that too for the reach. Cosina's model tends towards making highly individual lenses much of the time, but DZO think commonality in lens character.
(By the way, 'Thypoch' is DZO branding, despite what you read; it's DZOPTIC's light cine/stills brand, shown on their website).
Since you mention a 21mm, you might enjoy this short video explaining how and why 21mm developed into a hot trend in the cine world. In part, they may replace anamorphics and many cameras are high res enough to use a wide aspect ratio these days. And I think others with 21mm lenses might like it too. There is a lot of practical advice, commentary and examples presented here by Clever Ghost, highly recommended. (He used an Arles 21/T1.5)
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I often find myself thinking about selling it, and I probably will; I always carry the 28mm f/2 with me because of its compact size, and unfortunately that has become a pattern — but in terms of optical performance, this lens is probably still the best in my kit.
