Or, at least not in a way I can detect on my a7c with my 35i even WO with AF-C on moving dogs. The 35i is my only AF lens ATM, but I have a Samy 75/1.8 arriving I will try as well. I also don't find the MF harder until I put the 1 on, which is more powerful and really does put a SA/diffusion layer. I actually ran a test shooting Black ProMist 1/8, 1/4 and then 1 (1/1) and naked with both a CV 75/1.5 and 31 limited on a tripod with a human model for my own understanding. I also have a couple more coming to do further experimenting as they have different affects. I can share my findings on FM if you and others are interested. ...Show more →
Thank you! Personally I feel the CV 75/1.5 has some nice SA in the rendering, especially up close, but I was wondering if any of the Black Mist filters would be a great addition to more corrected lenses like the Sigma 65/2.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Thank you! Personally I feel the CV 75/1.5 has some nice SA in the rendering, especially up close, but I was wondering if any of the Black Mist filters would be a great addition to more corrected lenses like the Sigma 65/2.
I had the same thought on the 65i. But, I ended up ordering a Samy 75/1.8 instead as it shares the same 58mm filter as my Pentax ltd, CV 75/1.5 and 35i. Once I get the effect dialed in exactly to my liking, I will probably get a 65i as the Samy 75 was fine but not super impressive when I used it before.
Once thing to consider, is these filters have different affects (aside from strengths). I think the layout it somewhat of a maze on their cite, so I will try to save you a minute or two. For you, I would not get a Black Pro Mist as it alter the image beyond resolution and micro-contrast. You can read more here and watch a highly instructive but ultra boring 35 minute video if you want
1) I have the 3 black Black ProMist filters currently, which do this:
"Highlight flares are controlled.
Contrast is lowered, but with less lightening of shadows for a more delicate effect
Creates a soft light "pastel" effect
Delicate effect with contained highlight flare"
2) I've also ordered a "Digital Diffusion FX" which really just reduces fine detail resolution without change the character of the lens--no change of highlights, halation, shadow lifting or color affects like the Black ProMist. This is probably what you would want for a 65i. A 1/8 won't be noticeable really, a 1/4 probably a good option, and a 1/2 would probably be too much is my guess for the 65i for your taste.
This filter is described as "The Tiffen Digital Diffusion/FX Filter is a softening and diffusion filter specifically meant to appear invisible, as if no filtration is being applied. Compared to other diffusion filters, this filter offers virtually no flare or loss of contrast for more subtle applications. It helps to lessen facial blemishes, wrinkles, and gently smooth textured backgrounds while maintaining sharp focus."
3) I order a Pearlescent Screw-in Filter which I am hoping to get my CV75/1.5 rendering much close to a 75/80 Lux as it:
"Softens contrast and reduces sharpness
Reduces the appearance of blemishes and softens highlights
Creates pearlescent halo around highlights"
I recently acquired a Tamron 70-180, but I ordered the "Digital Diffusion FX" for it, has the Tamron's have crunchy renderings to my taste, that lens included, but otherwise I like it. I just want the edge take off but not alteration beyond that, similar to 65i. I will make a longer post in a bit and explain thing more with photos, and hopefully others can contribute as well.
BTW, I do like the CV 75/1.5 naked as well. I have been getting more used to it, and below is a photo from my hike a day or two ago. But I do like the ability to have "multiple lenses in one" by adding a filter.
bjhurley wrote:
For anyone who wants to make a foray into diffusion filters, it's worth noting that Formatt-Hitech is currently having an Easter sale on their Black Supermist filters, with a set of four (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and 1) selling for slightly over US $200 (https://www.formatt-hitech.com/cinema/black-supermist-circle-kit). That's about what I paid for just one of my Schneider Hollywood Black Magic filters, so it seems like a good deal to me. You need to enter the promo code SPRING20 at purchase, which gets you 20% off; looks like the sale ends on April 12. They're available in 77mm or 82mm circles; for step-up rings I like the ones sold by Duclos Lenses as they are solidly made and come with a rubber cap so you can leave the step-up ring on all the time if you like. I use these filters on multiple lenses and have a few different step-up rings.
The main caveat with diffusion filters is that they can produce speckled bokeh when you have an in-focus subject in the foreground with out-of-focus highlights in the background; speckles in the bokeh can also appear more generally when shooting close subjects wide open on fast lenses (faster than f2). The bokeh, most noticeably the OOF highlights, gets peppered with small dots and it doesn't look good. I can even provoke it on my 1/8 filter; I took some photos with it this morning against the light to test and indeed I see speckles....Show more →
This is helpful! Do all diffusion filters speckle the bokeh or just certain types/brands?
@ HelenaN I also mention when using filters, and will do a post showing what I have found
nehemiahphoto wrote:
This is helpful! Do all diffusion filters speckle the bokeh or just certain types/brands?
I only have direct experience with the Hollywood Black Magic, but according to the comment I've pasted below by Ryan Avery (a well-known cine lens designer who co-developed the Veydra lens line and now works for Tokina) in the comments section of this article (https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/03/23/tokina-cinema-diffusion-filters-review/) it seems to apply to at least some types of diffusion filters (maybe the ones with "black" in their names?).
"As with all filters like the Tokina Black Alchemy, Schneider Hollywood Black Magic, and Tiffen Black Soft F/X; you have avoid long lens bokeh effects (in focus subject in the foreground with out of focus lights in the background such as cityscapes, streetlights, panel lights, etc), and avoid shooting wide open past T2 on sensors S35 and above. The filters hold up perfectly as long as very apparent point source bokeh where the subject is close to the lens are avoided. Once at deeper focus, further from the lens, the effect speckle bokeh is gone."
Diffusion is typically created through etched patterns on the filter surface, although I think some of these filters use small pores instead and it may be those pores that cause the speckles; I haven't been able to find an authoritative explanation. I would post an example here but I don't have the Voigtlander 75 and don't want to pollute this thread with a photo using a different lens. ;-)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I had the same thought on the 65i. But, I ended up ordering a Samy 75/1.8 instead as it shares the same 58mm filter as my Pentax ltd, CV 75/1.5 and 35i. Once I get the effect dialed in exactly to my liking, I will probably get a 65i as the Samy 75 was fine but not super impressive when I used it before.
Once thing to consider, is these filters have different affects (aside from strengths). I think the layout it somewhat of a maze on their cite, so I will try to save you a minute or two. For you, I would not get a Black Pro Mist as it alter the image beyond resolution and micro-contrast. You can read more here and watch a highly instructive but ultra boring 35 minute video if you want
1) I have the 3 black Black ProMist filters currently, which do this:
"Highlight flares are controlled.
Contrast is lowered, but with less lightening of shadows for a more delicate effect
Creates a soft light "pastel" effect
Delicate effect with contained highlight flare"
2) I've also ordered a "Digital Diffusion FX" which really just reduces fine detail resolution without change the character of the lens--no change of highlights, halation, shadow lifting or color affects like the Black ProMist. This is probably what you would want for a 65i. A 1/8 won't be noticeable really, a 1/4 probably a good option, and a 1/2 would probably be too much is my guess for the 65i for your taste.
This filter is described as "The Tiffen Digital Diffusion/FX Filter is a softening and diffusion filter specifically meant to appear invisible, as if no filtration is being applied. Compared to other diffusion filters, this filter offers virtually no flare or loss of contrast for more subtle applications. It helps to lessen facial blemishes, wrinkles, and gently smooth textured backgrounds while maintaining sharp focus."
3) I order a Pearlescent Screw-in Filter which I am hoping to get my CV75/1.5 rendering much close to a 75/80 Lux as it:
"Softens contrast and reduces sharpness
Reduces the appearance of blemishes and softens highlights
Creates pearlescent halo around highlights"
I recently acquired a Tamron 70-180, but I ordered the "Digital Diffusion FX" for it, has the Tamron's have crunchy renderings to my taste, that lens included, but otherwise I like it. I just want the edge take off but not alteration beyond that, similar to 65i. I will make a longer post in a bit and explain thing more with photos, and hopefully others can contribute as well.
BTW, I do like the CV 75/1.5 naked as well. I have been getting more used to it, and below is a photo from my hike a day or two ago. But I do like the ability to have "multiple lenses in one" by adding a filter. ...Show more →
Thanks for summary.
Have you tried playing with Lightroom's contrast, texture and clarity to mimic these effects, in particular the 'Digital Diffusion' type?
I've used a bunch of the filters for video use. I don't know about lightroom, but Luminar AI has a specific glow/orton sliders that recreate halation and diffusion. I stopped using the filters since I switched to Resolve for video and Luminar for when I want those effects.
Still it's nice to have everything in camera sometimes. The non-black speckled filters don't have that spotty dust effect in specific conditions.
ftllens wrote:
Still it's nice to have everything in camera sometimes. The non-black speckled filters don't have that spotty dust effect in specific conditions.
Good to know about the speckled bokeh not being a universal issue. I agree that it's possible to achieve much of this look with software (I've used Resolve's diffusion tools on video myself) but it's usually faster and simpler to use a filter. Less GPU-intensive too, although that's a consideration for video rather than stills. The filter does bake in the look, though, so if you do it with software at least you have flexibility to dial in as much or little diffusion and related effects as you like.
bjhurley wrote:
I only have direct experience with the Hollywood Black Magic, but according to the comment I've pasted below by Ryan Avery (a well-known cine lens designer who co-developed the Veydra lens line and now works for Tokina) in the comments section of this article (https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/03/23/tokina-cinema-diffusion-filters-review/) it seems to apply to at least some types of diffusion filters (maybe the ones with "black" in their names?).
"As with all filters like the Tokina Black Alchemy, Schneider Hollywood Black Magic, and Tiffen Black Soft F/X; you have avoid long lens bokeh effects (in focus subject in the foreground with out of focus lights in the background such as cityscapes, streetlights, panel lights, etc), and avoid shooting wide open past T2 on sensors S35 and above. The filters hold up perfectly as long as very apparent point source bokeh where the subject is close to the lens are avoided. Once at deeper focus, further from the lens, the effect speckle bokeh is gone."
Diffusion is typically created through etched patterns on the filter surface, although I think some of these filters use small pores instead and it may be those pores that cause the speckles; I haven't been able to find an authoritative explanation. I would post an example here but I don't have the Voigtlander 75 and don't want to pollute this thread with a photo using a different lens. ;-)...Show more →
Perhaps this patent will shed some light (haha?) on the subject?
Yes--I have use a combo of Clarity/Texture in conjunction with sharpening and NR to achieve my desired textural quality. It's rare I don't use them to some degree on nearly every photo, though some more than others, depending on lens, FL, aperture etc. It's been successful but is somewhat of a pain, and needs to be tweaked. I think if you just wanted get a "Digital Diffusion FX" vibe, it would be much easier than the filters which have affects as well. I have had wayyyyyy more success using filters than trying to PP lens to look more vintage in an organic pleasant way.
I have found though, personally, that adjusting everything in post, whether it's getting canon or leica colors, or film presets or using AI filters and such, they are good in terms of getting 80-90% of the effect quickly, but to get the last part, it's really a pain and often can't get there. That has been my experience, and maybe that last 10% is just me being perfectionistic/neurotic.
I am aware of the Tiffen software, but to my understanding it's been discontinued, so I don't want to invest in discontinued/non-supported products.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Yes--I have use a combo of Clarity/Texture in conjunction with sharpening and NR to achieve my desired textural quality. It's rare I don't use them to some degree on nearly every photo, though some more than others, depending on lens, FL, aperture etc. It's been successful but is somewhat of a pain, and needs to be tweaked. I think if you just wanted get a "Digital Diffusion FX" vibe, it would be much easier than the filters which have affects as well. I have had wayyyyyy more success using filters than trying to PP lens to look more vintage in an organic pleasant way.
I have found though, personally, that adjusting everything in post, whether it's getting canon or leica colors, or film presets or using AI filters and such, they are good in terms of getting 80-90% of the effect quickly, but to get the last part, it's really a pain and often can't get there. That has been my experience, and maybe that last 10% is just me being perfectionistic/neurotic.
I am aware of the Tiffen software, but to my understanding it's been discontinued, so I don't want to invest in discontinued/non-supported products....Show more →
I've decided to give it a try. They have many filters under HFX Diffusion in the Plug-in suite (Lightroom Plug-in) but the two of interest here are the Diffusion and Pro-Mist choices.
The Pro-Mist has the Presets below, each with strengths from 1 to 10:
Black Pro-Mist
Cool Pro-Mist
Pro-Mist
Warm Black Pro-Mist
Warm Pro-Mist
The Diffusers Presets are: (1 to 10 intensity as well)
Black Diffusion
Gold Diffusion
Aside from that the Parameters for the Presets can also be tweaked and masked if desired
If you post an image showing before/after using the real filter, I can try the plugin on your "before" image and see if the software gets close to your "after". :-)
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've decided to give it a try. They have many filters under HFX Diffusion in the Plug-in suite (Lightroom Plug-in) but the two of interest here are the Diffusion and Pro-Mist choices.
The Pro-Mist has the Presets below, each with strengths from 1 to 10:
Black Pro-Mist
Cool Pro-Mist
Pro-Mist
Warm Black Pro-Mist
Warm Pro-Mist
The Diffusers Presets are: (1 to 10 intensity as well)
Black Diffusion
Gold Diffusion
Aside from that the Parameters for the Presets can also be tweaked and masked if desired
If you post an image showing before/after using the real filter, I can try the plugin on your "before" image and see if the software gets close to your "after". :-)...Show more →
Also, where/how do I upload a RAW file for people to download (like you)?
I see a lot of people using Google Drive. There are other file sharing services, some that offer both paid and free like "We Transfer". The free services usually let the files expire after a set time of ~ two weeks.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I like the Tiffen software a lot. It works as a LR plugin, so it’s easy to edit RAW files. The effects look convincing to me so far.
Can you link the download? Did you pay or get a trial?
highdesertmesa wrote:
I see a lot of people using Google Drive. There are other file sharing services, some that offer both paid and free like "We Transfer". The free services usually let the files expire after a set time of ~ two weeks.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Can you link the download? Did you pay or get a trial?
I used a demo. It looks like they are now discontinued (aside from the one selling at Amazon) and the software was sold to Boris FX. It uses an identical interface to the Tiffen DFX app, except that BorisFX Optics changed the filter names and categories a bit and added more filters. (It still includes diffusion and mist options) https://borisfx.com/products/optics/?collection=optics&product=optics#features
Go here: