p.12 #1 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
Has the MS-Optics 36/1.3 Apollon been discontinued? My friend has been searching everywhere, including in Japan, and can’t find one available.
MKDirect has marked it as sold out so they don't expect to make any more. I think they have used up all the parts they had secured for making those and are not currently planning to make another order for a new batch, but they have made reprints of some of their earlier lenses occasionally (usually in quite small volumes) so there might be some possibility of a reprint in the future. I don't know if there could be a hard limitation on availability of any of the parts though.
I asked about their availability from Miyazaki-san's grandson in September 2023 for a friend when it was already going very low on availability, at that time he replied as below (auto-translated):
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Apollon1.3/36 is out of stock due to its popularity.
We're out of stock of black, but we may have some silver in stock.
It will be sold through MK Direct in the future, but sales will probably be by reservation only.
If you contact us via MK Direct and request a reservation, you may be able to purchase it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sometime after that they marked it as sold out on the site, so I think they ran out of silver ones as well.
I've not seen them often in 2nd hand market either, maybe once in six months a copy pops up somewhere.
I think it would be good for them to make more or to release another fast ~35mm lens as there would certainly be demand for those.
p.12 #2 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
MKDirect has marked it as sold out so they don't expect to make any more. I think they have used up all the parts they had secured for making those and are not currently planning to make another order for a new batch, but they have made reprints of some of their earlier lenses occasionally (usually in quite small volumes) so there might be some possibility of a reprint in the future. I don't know if there could be a hard limitation on availability of any of the parts though.
I asked about their availability from Miyazaki-san's grandson in September 2023 for a friend when it was already going very low on availability, at that time he replied as below (auto-translated):
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Apollon1.3/36 is out of stock due to its popularity.
We're out of stock of black, but we may have some silver in stock.
It will be sold through MK Direct in the future, but sales will probably be by reservation only.
If you contact us via MK Direct and request a reservation, you may be able to purchase it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sometime after that they marked it as sold out on the site, so I think they ran out of silver ones as well.
I've not seen them often in 2nd hand market either, maybe once in six months a copy pops up somewhere.
I think it would be good for them to make more or to release another fast ~35mm lens as there would certainly be demand for those....Show more →
If a lens is so popular, wouldn’t it make sense to invest more resources into producing more of it? That said, I do appreciate that Miyazaki-san’s designs are unique and rare.
p.12 #3 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
If a lens is so popular, wouldn’t it make sense to invest more resources into producing more of it? That said, I do appreciate that Miyazaki-san’s designs are unique and rare.
Yes, I think it would make some sense to make and sell more but it seems the limited production quantities are always part of MS-Optics way. This was written in "The World of “Miyazaki” Lens" booklet about it (original text in English) as description about their approach regarding quantities:
-------------------
5) Signs of Historical Rare Lens
The production lot of items is basically based on 200 pieces as the minimum quantity.
For this reason, the price is a little high. However, since one item produces 200 ~ 500 pieces and there are few
repeat productions, our company is also sold at a surprisingly premium price even in the second-hand market.
Nowadays, many mass-produced lenses are dropped to be about half the price in 2~3 years, and we are
proud that they sell at a higher price after use, which is the best service rendered for our customers.
-------------------
I'm not sure what the designated quantity was for Apollon but I would guess somewhere around 400.
p.12 #8 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
By the way, I just picked up the MS Optics 28mm f/2 Black Paint lens and I’m really excited to try it out. I’ve only used the f/1.7 version III before, never the version II. This one focuses to 0.6m instead of 0.4m.
p.12 #9 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
By the way, I just picked up the MS Optics 28mm f/2 Black Paint lens and I’m really excited to try it out. I’ve only used the f/1.7 version III before, never the version II. This one focuses to 0.6m instead of 0.4m.
Oh, that's nice! There are actually 3 versions of 28/2 and the 28/1.7 is then like IV although it's not officially labeled as IV. I have 28/2-II (Black Urushi/Lacquer) and III (Urushi/Lacquer Sun version) as well as the 28/1.7. 28/2-II can focus to 0.4m and aperture can be controlled with hood but my version III only focuses to 0.55m and aperture can't be controlled with hood so I prefer II for those reasons. I never had a chance to try the original first version of 28/2. I've read that there were some optimizations starting from II that should have improved IQ although the optical design of all 3 versions of 28/2 should be basically same.
My 28/2-II happens to have perfect hard infinity alignment for stopped down long distance shots on my Rayqual adapter (very good balance across the frame at F8, while the lens does have lots of field curvature), so that's one additional reason why I like that version the most.
p.12 #10 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Oh, that's nice! There are actually 3 versions of 28/2 and the 28/1.7 is then like IV although it's not officially labeled as IV. I have 28/2-II (Black Urushi/Lacquer) and III (Urushi/Lacquer Sun version) as well as the 28/1.7. 28/2-II can focus to 0.4m and aperture can be controlled with hood but my version III only focuses to 0.55m and aperture can't be controlled with hood so I prefer II for those reasons. I never had a chance to try the original first version of 28/2. I've read that there were some optimizations starting from II that should have improved IQ although the optical design of all 3 versions of 28/2 should be basically same.
My 28/2-II happens to have perfect hard infinity alignment for stopped down long distance shots on my Rayqual adapter (very good balance across the frame at F8, while the lens does have lots of field curvature), so that's one additional reason why I like that version the most....Show more →
Juha, I managed to purchase a URUSHI black version of the lens! I'm not certain which version it is, but it focuses down to 0.4m (LV).
The only downside is that the seller doesn’t have the box, front cap, or hood. Do you know if it’s possible to buy the front cap separately? If not, I’ll look for a 28mm UV filter with a 0.75 pitch, as I believe it should fit this lens.
p.12 #11 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I never had a chance to try the original first version of 28/2..
That's the one I have; here it is on my M2-R. I think they all have the same issues with extreme field curvature and crazy focus shift. On my M2-R I only use it at f2 or f8 and above to ensure accurate focus with the rangefinder. I love this lens, though!
p.12 #12 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
Juha, I managed to purchase a URUSHI black version of the lens! I'm not certain which version it is, but it focuses down to 0.4m (LV).
The only downside is that the seller doesn’t have the box, front cap, or hood. Do you know if it’s possible to buy the front cap separately? If not, I’ll look for a 28mm UV filter with a 0.75 pitch, as I believe it should fit this lens.
Hi Fred,
I don't know of any shops where the MS-Optics front caps or hoods could be bought separately. I have read on occasion that some Japanese users contacted MS-Optics directly when their lens was missing some of the original parts like hood or cap and in some cases they were able to acquire suitable parts directly from MS-Optics but I think it depends a lot on what extra parts they happen to have around... I haven't seen them being sold separately anywhere.
Also, the caps and hood sizes and shapes are different between 28/2-II, 28/2-III and 28/1.7 and none are interchangeable with each other.
Here are some quick pics of my 28/2-II and 28/2-III for reference. The shape of the lenses are somewhat different and version III has a kind of recognizable up-down pattern on the outer side of the body (perhaps to help with gripping the lens when mounting/demounting) whereas version II has all smooth surface without such pattern. There are also some variations within version II with regards to how the focus stick is placed on the body. There were even special versions of II with 2 separate focus sticks (those must have been some trial versions with very few copies made).
I have additionally acquired 3rd party hood caps made by a small Japanese company called Hassendo that fit on top of the hoods. I use size 34-35 for the 28/2-II and 30-31 for the 28/2-III as those were perfect fits for the differently shaped/sized hoods that came with those lenses. Those hood caps could be bought from Amazon JP where Hassendo sells them: https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?i=merchant-items&me=A2939OV1KRTYVR
(link needs to be copied to browser for it to work right)
Urushi Black 28/2-II + Hassendo 34-35 hood cap
Urushi Black 28/2-II with hood + Hassendo 34-35 hood cap inserted
Urushi Sun 28/2-III + Hassendo 30-31 hood cap
Urushi Sun 28/2-III with hood + Hassendo 30-31 hood cap inserted
p.12 #13 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Great info, Juha! I ended up buying the same black Urushi version (II) as you did. I’d consider getting the hood cap you suggested, but unfortunately, my lens won’t include the hood or caps.
I’m thinking of using a 28mm (0.75 pitch) filter as both protection and a cap for my copy.
p.12 #14 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
Great info, Juha! I ended up buying the same black Urushi version (II) as you did. I’d consider getting the hood cap you suggested, but unfortunately, my lens won’t include the hood or caps.
I’m thinking of using a 28mm (0.75 pitch) filter as both protection and a cap for my copy.
The version 28/2-II is my favorite from all versions that I have I hope you will like it! The Black Urushi paint is also very nice look in my opinion, but it might not be as durable as regular paint. I've had a little piece of the Black Urushi paint chip off on my Black lens while I was just handling the lens with my hands, without hitting anything etc. Luckily all the rest of it has stayed on for the last 2 years or so that I've had the lens.
p.12 #15 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
The version 28/2-II is my favorite from all versions that I have I hope you will like it! The Black Urushi paint is also very nice look in my opinion, but it might not be as durable as regular paint. I've had a little piece of the Black Urushi paint chip off on my Black lens while I was just handling the lens with my hands, without hitting anything etc. Luckily all the rest of it has stayed on for the last 2 years or so that I've had the lens.
Yeah, I can totally see that happening. Urushi lacquer is more like a piece of art, so it needs a bit of extra care. Over time, it's bound to show some wear, which can actually add character to the lens. Too bad it’s not brass underneath...it would've aged even better! I see your serial number is 111. Mine's 143. Hopefully, it'll arrive soon.
p.12 #16 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yeah, I can totally see that happening. Urushi lacquer is more like a piece of art, so it needs a bit of extra care. Over time, it's bound to show some wear, which can actually add character to the lens. Too bad it’s not brass underneath...it would've aged even better! I see your serial number is 111. Mine's 143. Hopefully, it'll arrive soon.
Mine has red text on the data sheet that says it's #111 and also that it is Black #1/80 so if I'm reading it right the Black ones might start from 111 and there should be 80 of them in total.
I think these Urushi series of II are the best looking versions of all 28/2 variants I was lucky to get mine 2nd hand from Map Camera at a decent price back in the day, I must have been one of the first to see it as I expect there would have been lots of interested buyers.
p.12 #17 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
bjhurley wrote:
That's the one I have; here it is on my M2-R. I think they all have the same issues with extreme field curvature and crazy focus shift. On my M2-R I only use it at f2 or f8 and above to ensure accurate focus with the rangefinder. I love this lens, though!
Yes, they all have basically same optical design but it seems Miyazaki-san did some optical tweaking between each version. MS-Optics Lens 2 booklet which I have (by S. Miyazaki and S. Ishida) mentions that some improvement of sharpness and peripheral resolution was done in versions II and III over original one and the SA curves for the 3 different versions have some variation in the data sheets. In practise I think my III shows higher sharpness than my II wide open at close range at least but overall I prefer the II (especially from handling perspective).
This SA curves from Data Sheet of version III of the lens (called Part III in the sheet) show 3 different curves where leftmost is for Part I, the middle one is for Part III and the rightmost is for Part II, and these seem to refer some differences between the 3 different versions of the lens.
SA curves for version I (left), III (middle) and II (right) from data sheet of III
p.12 #18 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Fred Miranda wrote:
I’m thinking of using a 28mm (0.75 pitch) filter as both protection and a cap for my copy.
That's what I did, since mine (version 1) didn't come with the hood either, although it did come with the screw-in cap. And then I bought a snap-on 28mm lens cap to go on top of the filter because the screw-in lens cap is such a pain to deal with. I got the 28mm filter from Heliopan and the 28mm lens cap from filterfind.net.
In my version of that lens, the hood was used to adjust aperture; without the hood you need to use your fingernail. The filter I bought extends out enough from the lens that I can grab it and use it to adjust aperture. It's possible that it adds a little vignetting when the lens is wide open, but this lens vignettes quite a bit wide open on its own so I haven't noticed a different with or without the filter.
p.12 #19 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
bjhurley wrote:
That's what I did, since mine (version 1) didn't come with the hood either, although it did come with the screw-in cap. And then I bought a snap-on 28mm lens cap to go on top of the filter because the screw-in lens cap is such a pain to deal with. I got the 28mm filter from Heliopan and the 28mm lens cap from filterfind.net.
In my version of that lens, the hood was used to adjust aperture; without the hood you need to use your fingernail. The filter I bought extends out enough from the lens that I can grab it and use it to adjust aperture. It's possible that it adds a little vignetting when the lens is wide open, but this lens vignettes quite a bit wide open on its own so I haven't noticed a different with or without the filter. ...Show more →
p.12 #20 · MS-Optics lenses Image and Discussion Thread
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Mine has red text on the data sheet that says it's #111 and also that it is Black #1/80 so if I'm reading it right the Black ones might start from 111 and there should be 80 of them in total.
I think these Urushi series of II are the best looking versions of all 28/2 variants I was lucky to get mine 2nd hand from Map Camera at a decent price back in the day, I must have been one of the first to see it as I expect there would have been lots of interested buyers.
Does your Urushi black version focuses down to. 0.4m?
