p.16 #2 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
I quite like what I see in the video.
Especially with regard to the bokeh, the very aesthetic OOF transition/rendering, it looks very promising and also much smoother and less distracting than the Sony 50/1.4 GM.
The shape and the significantly softer appearance of the specular highlights in the out-of-focus area also look very promising.
It will be interesting to see how it performs against a Sony 50/1.2 GM.
The fact that 16 of my current 21 lenses are manual focus lenses also reflects my preference for high-quality MF lenses.
Although I have fantastic AF lenses like the Plena, the fun factor of photography is more pronounced for me with high-quality MF lenses.
It's simply a different photographic style that automatically slows things down due to the limitations of MF, more like in the old days of analogue photography, when people took very conscious photos for resource reasons.
But there are also things like haptics, real manual focusing with exactly the right focus throw and resistance, which is not comparable in terms of feeling to focus by wire, even if that is now really very good and precise with lenses like the Plena.
Also the feeling that such high-quality MF lenses give you, built for decades of use, like a tank.
All of my MF lenses are still fully functional and there are some like the CZJ 58/2 Biotar, which dates back to the 50s and has already captured our entire childhood on analog film, so I'm the second generation using it and would easily survive another generation.
The same with my Canon nFD 85/1.2 L, although Canon FD is known for problems with plastic bearings, it still purrs like a kitten after more than 40 years, just like on the first day.
Even if you mostly find head shaking and a lack of understanding in relation to MF lenses in this price category, it is definitely on my list if the direction/alignment from the video should prove to be correct.
At least until in-depth comparisons with the price-comparable competition are available, which then have to show where the Zeiss Otus ML 50/1.4 fits in.
p.16 #3 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
DWOfPaul wrote:
Overall I am excited to see more about these lenses. Zeiss sample photos look solid. You can definitely see some of Zeiss look in the images.
I am a bit disappointed at the 2,500 price point. I think 2,000 or, even better, 1,800 would have made the 50mm a lot more approachable compared to other options on the market.
As the lens gets more reviewers, maybe the 2,500 price point will make more sense 🤞
Not to sound dismissive, but it's Zeiss. I bought the Batis 135mm f/2.8 at full price. Ouch. I still have it and it's still amazing, but still.
p.16 #4 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Several years ago I sold my beloved Zeiss Otus 55mm 1.4 (Canon-mount). I wanted to get away from the size and weight of that DSLR lens…and didn’t want any non-native mount lenses. But the Otus 55mm is the best lens (optically) I’ve ever owned/used. Sharpness from wide-open, brilliant color rendering, and a smooth clean bokeh.
All that to say, this new native e-mount Otus going to have me doing a lot of self-bargaining and rationalizing over the coming weeks.
BTW, I paid nearly $4k for the Otus 55mm back in 2014, so in my mind $2.5K in 2025 is a bargain.
p.16 #5 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
I'd like to see a comparison between the Otus 50 f/1.4 and the 50mm f/2 CV APO Lanthar which is a fraction of the size and less than half the cost of the Otus.
I'm sure people will buy the Otuses at $2,500 each but then people also buy manual focus Leica lenses at multiple thousands of dollars.
p.16 #6 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Steve Spencer wrote:
I agree with you on everything except the CA issue. Sure there is some, but that is generally true of all f/1.4 and faster lenses. Having owned both the Zeiss 28 Otus and the 55 Otus, it was true of both those lenses too. As I know you know, APO by definition is not a lens totally free from axial CA, but rather exactly what Zeiss quotes in their promotional material which is identical focusing of three specific wavelengths. So, I don't know whether these lenses are totally APO or not, but there obviously is a fudge factor in this definition because what precision level are we talking with "identical."
Personally, I don't get hung up on the label as it has been used to describe lenses with a wide variety of performance. For example, I had a Voigtlander 90 f/3.5 APO lens for Canon EF mount and it had among the worst purple fringing of any lens I have owned. What really matters is how the lens performs and how it performs relative to other lenses and for that we are going to need to see side by side comparisons in the same situation. I am not sure at all that it will do better than the premium Sony/Nikon/Canon alternatives, but I don't expect it to be much worse either, but that awaits to be seen. I have used the Sony f/1.2 GM extensively and it is remarkably low in CA in my experience, but it too is not free from axial CA.
So, it is early and we will just have to wait to see how this lens performs as more people get it in their hands and can test it more thoroughly. The samples are great. They do tell us that the lens will not be free from axial CA, but that was a lot to expect with an f/1.4 lens. I don't think they tell us about relative performance, however....Show more →
In addition, looks like the new Otus 85 has far more distortion compared with the 85 Milvus which is a fantastic lens I’m glad to own.
Feb 25, 2025 at 09:55 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.16 #7 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
CATProductions wrote:
In addition, looks like the new Otus 85 has far more distortion compared with the 85 Milvus which is a fantastic lens I’m glad to own.
Just less than one percent barrel distortion, IMO, is not very significant. I have owned many lenses with that level of distortion and I find it fairly low, a non-issue for most types of shooting and easily correctable without hardly any influence on image quality when you want to correct it. Sure the DSLR Otus 85 had a tiny bit less distortion about .8 percent but the difference is really in the type of distortion and not the magnitude of the distortion. The DSLR 85 Otus had pincushion, whereas the Otus 85 ML has barrel distortion. Personally, pincushion distortion bothers me more than barrel distortion, so I actually prefer the pattern in the Otus 85 ML.
p.16 #8 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Looking at the glossy web page for the 50/1.4, a few things to note. Focus throw is a very different (but Zeiss standard) 260 degrees, which is more like a cine lens than most stills lenses. For comparison, most high end Voigtlanders are around 100 degrees.
'The ZEISS Otus ML series is characterized by an extraordinary shallow depth of field'.
It's a feature also of Zeiss and ARRI cine lenses, and it's starkly different to many lenses we have today. So best to know what you want. Zeiss opted for the style of 3D that involves a very sharp focused subject painted over the bokeh field, back and front:
'a picture look is created that appears almost three-dimensional - the characteristic ZEISS 3D Pop.'
Many enjoy this look, but it's something to be well aware of. These characteristics mean users will struggle to do a wide range of photography, or work fast. That usage is reinforced by the need to carry and use a tool to de-click the aperture ring, if desired.
In terms of performance, we have come a long way since Zeiss went to sleep in another bed. Many lenses are, if anything, too sharp for many people. Most are fast in use, including the MF lenses offered by Cosina and Leica, and others.
These ML Otuses are arguably an anomaly - they are fast and they flaunt it with rapid focus fade. F1.4 is therefore their reason to exist, implying close focus compositions. But being slow to use, large and heavy maybe puts them better in the studio, soft travel and family areas. You better like the heavily abstracted look if you shoot wide open.
The lenses they will most resemble might be the Leica SL (AF) series in terms of rendering, that super sharp, rich color look. Strangely, their 50/1.4 promo video shows a lot of 'artistic' black and white images (from an APO) and a Chinese guy; maybe that's the market they want to get better established in. The facial rendition from this 14/11 design with several aspherical surfaces will not be for everyone, that much is certain. I could not find a data sheet (for MTF), maybe it will be released later.
The 85/1.4 page's video is a jump cut mess, showing little of value to stills users. A lot of smoothing used on the faces panel at the top. But it does have the MTF data sheet. More on that later.
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.16 #9 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
philip_pj wrote:
Looking at the glossy web page for the 50/1.4, a few things to note. Focus throw is a very different (but Zeiss standard) 260 degrees, which is more like a cine lens than most stills lenses. For comparison, most high end Voigtlanders are around 100 degrees.
'The ZEISS Otus ML series is characterized by an extraordinary shallow depth of field'.
It's a feature also of Zeiss and ARRI cine lenses, and it's starkly different to many lenses we have today. So best to know what you want. Zeiss opted for the style of 3D that involves a very sharp focused subject painted over the bokeh field, back and front:
'a picture look is created that appears almost three-dimensional - the characteristic ZEISS 3D Pop.'
Many enjoy this look, but it's something to be well aware of. These characteristics mean users will struggle to do a wide range of photography, or work fast. That usage is reinforced by the need to carry and use a tool to de-click the aperture ring, if desired.
In terms of performance, we have come a long way since Zeiss went to sleep in another bed. Many lenses are, if anything, too sharp for many people. Most are fast in use, including the MF lenses offered by Cosina and Leica, and others.
These ML Otuses are arguably an anomaly - they are fast and they flaunt it with rapid focus fade. F1.4 is therefore their reason to exist, implying close focus compositions. But being slow to use, large and heavy maybe puts them better in the studio, soft travel and family areas. You better like the heavily abstracted look if you shoot wide open.
The lenses they will most resemble might be the Leica SL (AF) series in terms of rendering, that super sharp, rich color look. Strangely, their 50/1.4 promo video shows a lot of 'artistic' black and white images (from an APO) and a Chinese guy; maybe that's the market they want to get better established in. The facial rendition from this 14/11 design with several aspherical surfaces will not be for everyone, that much is certain. I could not find a data sheet (for MTF), maybe it will be released later.
The 85/1.4 page's video is a jump cut mess, showing little of value to stills users. A lot of smoothing used on the faces panel at the top. But it does have the MTF data sheet. More on that later.
The MTF is strong, but wide open it is pretty close to the classic 90/80/60 percent contrast at 10/20/40 lp/mm of many Zeiss lenses. It will be sharp wide open, but probably not as sharp as some of the more recent lenses like the Leica SL summicrons and some of the recent Sony lenses. In looking at samples, it is also clear to me that the lens sharpens up a bit and pretty much all axial CA is gone by stopping down to f/2. So, I think although the lens will have strong performance at f/1.4, it will really be more like the Leica SL APO lenses at f/2 creating two noticeably different looks.
p.16 #10 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
MTF shows us lens contrast ('sharpness' is the lowest line pair) in percentages of 'perfection', left vertical axis.
Here are the f1.4 charts of the new Otus ML 85mm f1.4 and its predecessor lens, the DSLR Otus 85/1.4. See the flatness of the Otus ML. Some of have used the Loxia 85mm wide open, it's lovely. The Loxia 85mm f2.4 is shown at f2.4 below the Otuses' charts. It's slower but look at the results, they are 'Otus tier', from a very stable lens with still fine separation/bokeh. Last is the Otus 100mm f1.4 DSLR lens shown wide open.
p.16 #11 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Now, landscape / cityscape / buildings, abstracts etc. that need the best each lens can deliver - here, Loxia 85/2.4 at f5.6; Otus 100/1.4 at f4 and Otus ML 85/1.4 at f4. (85mm and 100mm lenses are virtually the same in design challenge and difficulty terms.)
p.16 #12 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Vento wrote:
I quite like what I see in the video.
Especially with regard to the bokeh, the very aesthetic OOF transition/rendering, it looks very promising and also much smoother and less distracting than the Sony 50/1.4 GM.
The shape and the significantly softer appearance of the specular highlights in the out-of-focus area also look very promising.
It will be interesting to see how it performs against a Sony 50/1.2 GM.
I see green fringing around the specular highlights of the Otus.
p.16 #13 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
As much as I dug the old school Otus lenses, I have no desire to acquire this 50mm. I wish Zeiss would've challenged themselves to hit these optical goals and provide AF. I think that would have made these a more interesting remix to the Otus line.
p.16 #14 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Vento wrote:
I quite like what I see in the video.
Especially with regard to the bokeh, the very aesthetic OOF transition/rendering, it looks very promising and also much smoother and less distracting than the Sony 50/1.4 GM.
The shape and the significantly softer appearance of the specular highlights in the out-of-focus area also look very promising.
It will be interesting to see how it performs against a Sony 50/1.2 GM.
What the video shows, softer and more diffused bokeh highlights, is exactly the same as earlier seen with the ZX1's 2/35 Distagon lens (remarkbly small lens with the Otus performance packed in). It's definitely a very nice look and makes things look a bit different than with any other lens.
There's a Zeiss Otus digital live event today at Youtube, which might give us a possibility to ask questions:
p.16 #15 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Yes, we will have to wait for real in-depth reviews to really judge how the Otus ML 50/1.4 and also the ML 85/1.4 scales in the area of color aberrations @ f/1.4 compared to the price competition.
I don't expect absolute perfection there, but definitely at about the level of the price range.
Ultimately, none of the lenses, not even a Z 58/0.95 Noct, Z 85/1.2 S, Z 50/1.2 S or Plena, 35/2 Apo Lanthar are completely free of color aberrations in extremely high-contrast scenarios at maximum aperture.
Another question will also be whether there are more significant sample variations.
There are definitely very different review results with one and the same lens, in terms of CA, LoCa,...
The Plena is certified in the review at photographylife as having phenomenal performance in this regard, one of the lowest chromatic aberration measurements that they've ever recorded in the lab.
That's also my experience with my Plena.
One of the lenses where I deactivate CA correction, because even with extreme pixel peeping there is no difference, or at least not visible to my perception and therefore not relevant.
If it is there, then it is so irrelevant and requires massive torture scenarios + extreme pixel peeping.
But there are also different reviews in this area, where the Plena scales very well in this area, but not as flawless and it still scales noticeably better than a Z 85/1.2 S in the measurements.
You will find something similar with the 35/2 Apo Lanthar VM.
This ranges from absolutely outstanding to opinions such as those of Bastian K./phillipreeve.net, CA correction is not as good as he expected from a lens carrying an Apo tag.
So here, too, there is significant variation in the evaluation.
For me, the performance, rendering for people photography @ f/1.4 will be decisive.
The fact that you can expect absolute apo level from f/2 is already indicated in the few previews and also that it will not be the case at f/1.4.
But how relevant this will ultimately be in practice remains to be seen.
That is the possible attraction of these lenses for me, if they have managed to achieve an excellent rendering for portraits @ f/1.4, also slightly undercorrected, if for the aesthetics of the rendering beneficial, but from f/2 it then goes full throttle, as I am used to from the Apo Lanthar Z lenses.
In other words, if it has two souls in one breast.
p.16 #17 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Steve Spencer wrote:
There really is no comparison in the MTF charts.
No doubt. I was putting too much trust in DPR's garbage samples. The MTF charts and the Art of Photography samples tell a wildly different story.
Steve Spencer wrote:
football shaped out of focus highlights extend pretty far into the frame
I very much noticed that (though bokeh seems nice and soft, not too busy, overall), and I wonder if it's related to Zeiss's data sheet showing that relative illumination improves far less with stopping down than on the Milvus 50 and Otus 55. Makes you wonder if they should've gone up to a 72mm filter thread and/or makes you wonder what they could've done if this thing had been designed for the RF and Z throat diameters only and not had to accommodate E. Then again, the Art of Photography video says vignetting is *less* than the Milvus, not more, so I dunno. It's probably too soon to have firm answers on any of this.
p.16 #18 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Kalainen wrote:
[...] There's a Zeiss Otus digital live event today at Youtube, which might give us a possibility to ask questions:
The event was a disappointment. It was a lot more marketing fluff than i had hoped for.
In short, we learned the new Otus lenses are about perfection and that the manual focusing will help us to elevate our craft.
At 7.00 "...one 1.4 50mm lens to explore your story and 1.4 85mm to portraying your story (...) The 85mm lens is for those having a clear vision."
At 10.00: Optical designs
They also showed a few image samples supposed to demonstrate the "sharpness", low distortion, no CA and no flare. Oh well.
From the live chat. There was a question about CA seen in some images on the Net and Zeiss replied:
This thread, page 14 post 4 Alan Parker linked to some on-line presentations. The one in the middle, by "The art of photography", demonstrates the worst kind of CA at 8.47.
I took a screenshot of the rolling video at f/1.4 and next at f/2. from the material in the video the effective size of the screenshots are 135% crops so a worse than normal unless printing big. Worse than normal doesn't mean they are OK in my book.
above Otus ML 50/1.4 wide open
above Otus ML 50/1.4 at f/2
I hope there will be more serious independent reviews out soon. Marketing and click baits can be fun but they aren't really useful.
p.16 #20 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Alan Parker wrote:
It is really weird how there's been so few reviews out there. If you launch your signature marque product wouldn't you want everyone to cover it?
Well,it's a niche lens and it was presented to the world a few days ago only. Maybe not that strange. In any case, I haven't seen any results or images i feel i can trust yet.
