johnvanr wrote:
I’m wondering who’s leading that list then? I’m Dutch and not exactly impressed with my country either. Then again, I can’t think of any country right now that’s on the right path. Norway?
Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, and Norway are in the top 5. They all made smart political and economical decisions in recent years IMO.
freaklikeme wrote:
And what the hell took so long?
Fear to compromise mainly Q- and SL sales with such camera one way or the other. The result of this fear but willingness to move forward we are seeing in the EV1.
retrofocus wrote:
Fear to compromise mainly Q- and SL sales with such camera one way or the other. The result of this fear but willingness to move forward we are seeing in the EV1.
You keep saying that- I don't think it has anything to do with fear of not selling an SL camera-
I trust what Jono said about it and he probably has a better pulse on it-
RustyRus wrote:
You keep saying that- I don't think it has anything to do with fear of not selling an SL camera-
I trust what Jono said about it and he probably has a better pulse on it-
Yes I repeated this - I am convinced of it. I talked to a Leica representative last year in Germany before this camera was on the horizon, and I was exactly told this why such camera might take a long time to see the light of the day.
Judging by the group of people that showed up to test the EV-1 ?there are enough potential buyers out there who are interested in an EVF native M mount camera for such an offering to be financially successful. I spoke to a number of them who were hoping to be one of the lucky 3 who went home with an EV-1 that night. The fact that as far as I know not one of them ended up buying a camera says a lot about how well Leica met expectationsns.
If thisproduct fails it says more about Leica than it does about markets.
1bwana1 wrote:
Judging by the group of people that showed up to test the EV-1 ?there are enough potential buyers out there who are interested in an EVF native M mount camera for such an offering to be financially successful. I spoke to a number of them who were hoping to be one of the lucky 3 who went home with an EV-1 that night. The fact that as far as I know not one of them ended up buying a camera says a lot about how well Leica met expectationsns.
If thisproduct fails it says more about Leica than it does about markets....Show more →
Big question is - would they have bought it for $2K cheaper in offering price? I think there are two parts of the story - pricing on one side, and camera performance fitting specific needs in photography on the other. If Leica falls short of sales expectations, they can easily lower the price for it without doing much else (other than firmware updates of course). Then it will likely sell moderately well IMO.
In fact I was asking myself the very same question: what was the Leica's true innovative product? And the answer must be: the M3, released some 71 years ago. Not much, after that....
Just to keep things in perspective, I do believe Leica actually invented autofocus and later sold the patent rights to Minolta. They showed a prototype at Photokina in 76' but never commercialized it as they believed their customers preferred manual focus! I would say AF was a pretty big innovation in the history of photography.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Just to keep things in perspective, I do believe Leica actually invented autofocus and later sold the patent rights to Minolta. They showed a prototype at Photokina in 76' but never commercialized it as they believed their customers preferred manual focus! I would say AF was a pretty big innovation in the history of photography.
1963: Canon introduced a prototype autofocus camera, but it never went into production.
1971: Nikon developed the first functioning in-lens autofocus system.
1977: The Konica C35 AF was the first mass-produced autofocus camera.
1978: The Polaroid SX-70 Sonar OneStep was the first autofocus SLR.
1985: Minolta launched the Minolta 7000 and 9000, the first 35mm SLRs with integrated autofocus, even before competitors introduced comparable systems
johnvanr wrote:
I’m wondering who’s leading that list then? I’m Dutch and not exactly impressed with my country either. Then again, I can’t think of any country right now that’s on the right path. Norway?
Nifty Fifty wrote:
1963: Canon introduced a prototype autofocus camera, but it never went into production.
1971: Nikon developed the first functioning in-lens autofocus system.
1977: The Konica C35 AF was the first mass-produced autofocus camera.
1978: The Polaroid SX-70 Sonar OneStep was the first autofocus SLR.
1985: Minolta launched the Minolta 7000 and 9000, the first 35mm SLRs with integrated autofocus, even before competitors introduced comparable systems
Leitz patented Phase Detection AF technology in the 60's. Perhaps all these companies had various AF technologies they were working on but the patents that Leitz held are the ones closest to what is used today. If you ask Google who invented AF, it's Leica. If you question ChatGPT about the details of AF, you get this:
Leitz (Leica) and the Birth of Modern Autofocus:
Leitz (the parent company of Leica) was indeed one of the pioneers of autofocus technology — long before it appeared in consumer cameras.
📍 Key Developments:
1960s–1970s: Engineers at Ernst Leitz GmbH (Leica) in Wetzlar, Germany, developed a passive autofocus system that used phase detection — the same core principle used in today’s DSLR and mirrorless AF systems.
1976: Leitz completed a fully functioning prototype autofocus SLR called the Leica Correfot.
It used an optical beam-splitting and phase-detection system to determine focus — much more sophisticated than the active infrared systems used by others at the time (like Honeywell’s).
1978: Leitz publicly demonstrated the Leica Correfot prototype at the Photokina trade show. It worked remarkably well, but Leica’s management decided the technology was “too electronic” and didn’t fit Leica’s mechanical philosophy — so they never released it commercially.
The Connection to Minolta
After deciding not to commercialize their autofocus research:
Leitz sold or licensed their AF patents to Minolta in the late 1970s.
These patents formed part of the technical foundation for Minolta’s AF SLR system, which culminated in the 1985 Minolta Maxxum 7000 — the first truly integrated, mass-market autofocus SLR.
This collaboration also fit into a broader Leica–Minolta partnership that had already produced joint products like:
The Leica CL (manufactured by Minolta in Japan)
The Minolta XE-7 / Leica R3 and Minolta XD / Leica R4 shared designs and electronics.
🧭 So, in summary:
Year Event Key Player
1960s–70s Leitz develops advanced phase-detection AF prototypes (Correfot system) Leitz (Leica)
Late 1970s Leitz sells AF patents to Minolta Leitz → Minolta
1985 First integrated AF SLR (Maxxum 7000) released Minolta, using AF tech partly based on Leica’s research
1980s onward Minolta leads AF SLR era, later influencing Sony Alpha system Minolta → Sony
🧠 Bottom line:
You’re absolutely correct — while Honeywell and Konica commercialized autofocus first, Leitz (Leica) arguably invented the modern phase-detect autofocus system and passed that technology to Minolta, whose Maxxum 7000 became the first successful AF SLR built on those foundations.
- Ultimately, it seems to be about how you ask the question.
retrofocus wrote:
Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, and Norway are in the top 5. They all made smart political and economical decisions in recent years IMO.
Well, I live in Austria and everybody here seems to think it’s a mess.
Steve Spencer wrote:
And EV1 + CV 28 f/1.5 weighs 745 grams. Herein lies the possible advantage of the EV1. It can give you a very fast lens in a very small package with a quite good EVF if that is what you want.
Agreed, but the Q3 is 743 grams and has AF as well. The Q lens is a bit bulkier though.
As I read more, I am a bit surprised that Leica hasn't figured out how to be class-leading in:
1. innovative focus aids,
2. Fast startup time.
These cameras are expensive - at the very least they should start up immediately. On the M11 it's a manageable problem since I can use the OVF to start focusing as the camera's startup catches up to my focusing activity. But if I'm reliant on the EVF, the slow startup would drive me nuts.
As for focusing aids, I would've thought they would come up with some software innovations that transcend what's available on the M11's live view. Apparently not?
No way I'll pay $9K for this. Maybe half that on the used market, but maybe not... I really like the M11.
Arka wrote:
As I read more, I am a bit surprised that Leica hasn't figured out how to be class-leading in:
1. innovative focus aids,
2. Fast startup time.
These cameras are expensive - at the very least they should start up immediately. On the M11 it's a manageable problem since I can use the OVF to start focusing as the camera's startup catches up to my focusing activity. But if I'm reliant on the EVF, the slow startup would drive me nuts.
As for focusing aids, I would've thought they would come up with some software innovations that transcend what's available on the M11's live view. Apparently not?
No way I'll pay $9K for this. Maybe half that on the used market, but maybe not... I really like the M11. ...Show more →
Not sure it's an issue of the ability to figure something out, rather a specific strategy to prioritize some features/user experience over others. At least for the last four/five years apparently many customers been willing to pay handsomely for Leica's product and pricing strategy.
catacore wrote:
Never had a horse in this race, but still, I was interested on what Leica will come up with. Now, that we all have found out, I must say I am dissapointed. I was not the user target for this camera, but this lack on any innovation is very dissapointing. At least at this price point.
Now I am more curious to find out, from the M-EV1's targeted users (those requesting, at LUF and LSI, an M equiped with an EVF), how satisfied are they with the Leica's response to their wishes. Sales will tell...
I've been begging for this camera for years. It's the price I expected, but with less innovation than I was (cautiously) hoping for. I'm disappointed it doesn't have the level of upgrades as the M11P has over the M11 as that would at least have done a bit to make the price more justified(considering the lack of innovation on manual focusing aids.)
As another poster said, who obviously has more experience with this camera, I too feel luke warm about it's release. I'll likely reconsider in the used market when the price comes down. I hope it's a success for Leica and they follow it up with a better and more aggressive effort.
johnvanr wrote:
It’s a logical answer, but it also underscores my very issue with the Leica M that I had hoped this camera would address. That is that it’s just not a good carry-everywhere camera if you’re working outside of its narrow abilities. With the rangefinder model, you have a great tool to shoot between 28mm to 50mm, but better not wide open and not in heavy rain. With the EVF model, you can use a wider range of lenses and you can shoot wide open, but in many circumstances, the process will be slow. And you still can’t use it in heavy rain.
Yet, to read that answer is like them saying that it’s a tool and sometimes it’s better to use your $9000 rangefinder and sometimes you take your $9000 EVF camera. Not in my world....Show more →
If they were being honest about using a camera as a tool to not miss a shot, they would use an AF camera like a Leica SL or anything else from the other mfgs.
Of course there are photographers who use M cameras as a tool, but they do not make excuses as to why. Adding an EVF that has the most basic focus aids does not elevate that camera.
