Does anyone use the crop mode on their R1 or R3 when shooting wildlife with a 300 2.8, 200-400 f/4, or any other longer tele lenses? Or any other lenses at all? Seems like such a beneficial tool that I've never explored. I know the file size is quite smaller and you can't print images that large. I am referring to the 1.6 crop mode.
Personally, I don't see the benefit. I am sure that you realize, but the crop feature doesn't get you any more reach, It just crops in camera. I guess it could speed up your processing after the fact. I would rather have the option to crop to my taste when I am looking at the image on the computer.
Cropping makes little sense with such low resolution (24MP) to start. I suppose if you only need 9.3MP output for some reason it would work. The R5 II gives 17.3MP from the 1.6 crop, but I still don't use it.
As others have mentioned, if you're going to spend time working on the images in post, there is no point to crop mode. You can instead custom-crop full frame images as required. You can even crop in-camera later, if desired.
IMO the benefit of in-camera APS-C crop is if you need to immediately deliver images and won't have any control over post processing. And you are somewhat reach limited where cropping will improve the SOOC image/composition. Another benefit with a camera like the R5II, where APS-C is 17MP, is that if shooting RAW, pretty much always reach limited and always cropping to at least APS-C equivalent in post, it reduces the impact on storage. It also provides a larger target in the EVF for the AF system to recognize and acquire when using subject detection and tracking.
Thank you. I've never been one that has enjoyed working on the computer with my images. I need to fake some time learning how to do the work more efficiently.
i find it sometimes easier to obtain (or at least know that i've obtained) focus when something is in the distance when i used cropped mode. so, in that case i find crop mode on my r3 to be helpful.
i like pretty much everyone else here thought it would be useless on the R3 but when i'm shooting from one end of a football field to far down the other end, it can be hard to see what the focus is on. crop mode helps. especially considering it would be cropped in post anyway.
edit - i just noticed that rscheffler said something similar.
mattchu wrote:
Thank you. I've never been one that has enjoyed working on the computer with my images. I need to fake some time learning how to do the work more efficiently.
I have Lightroom and photoshop. My catalogue is in Lightroom and I shoot in raw. I've seen some different classes online but just haven't taken any. Could stand to use a class on organizing and minor editing.
Advantages to crop mode:
1) Subject recognition improves. If the camera isn't detecting the subject in full frame because it is too small in the frame and you switch to crop mode it often starts to detect.
2) More shots on the memory card
3) Deeper buffer
Now 2 and 3 aren't too important on an R1 or R3 as the files are fairly small anyways. Especially if one is shooting in CRAW. 2 and 3 are more important on an R5/5II.
#1 can be a big benefit. However, one must also be mindful that a crop photo on a 24MP camera is only 9.3MP image and subject may just be too far away if you are having to use crop mode to get subject detect to work.
arbitrage wrote:
Advantages to crop mode:
1) Subject recognition improves. If the camera isn't detecting the subject in full frame because it is too small in the frame and you switch to crop mode it often starts to detect.
2) More shots on the memory card
3) Deeper buffer
Now 2 and 3 aren't too important on an R1 or R3 as the files are fairly small anyways. Especially if one is shooting in CRAW. 2 and 3 are more important on an R5/5II.
#1 can be a big benefit. However, one must also be mindful that a crop photo on a 24MP camera is only 9.3MP image and subject may just be too far away if you are having to use crop mode to get subject detect to work. ...Show more →
I wonder about the things on that list.
Does the subject recognition system actually work differently when cropping? Yes, the image in the display may be larger, but are you sure that the AF system is relying on the display image rather than the actual sensor image? why do you think so?
At least on earlier Canon digital cameras, using a crop mode while shooting raw will not change the amount of memory used at all. The full image is still captured, though the default display is to show only the portion of it within the cropped area. I believe that cropped jpg images are smaller, but with them the file size is far less of an issue to begin with.
Again, I do not believe that cropping affects buffer capacity. Shooting jpg does, but again the buffer is quite large on those cameras if you are shooting jpgs.
In the case of our OP, crop mode probably makes little sense, and learning some very, very basic Lightroom techniques is a better idea. It is super easy to crop in LR — in fact, it is one of the easier things to do in the app.
I also agree that relying too regularly on cropping with these moderate MP cameras isn’t the greatest idea either. It might be a bit of a different idea with a higher-MP system, but even there if you are cropping a whole lot in cases like that described here it is time to consider a longer lens.
Yes, there are situations where the camera "sees" the scene as you see it in the EVF. This is true for AF in servo mode: If you underexpose 3 stops with exposure preview enabled, the camera will struggle to focus. If you turn off exposure preview, it'll easily focus. I believe the same principle applies to crop mode. Subjects smaller than a certain threshold are much harder to convince the camera to focus on. I'm not sure how much this really helps the keeper rate though, since that threshold is usually pretty low and by that point, it's usually not a very good image anyway.
Dan, Canon's mirrorless cameras in crop mode, including RAW, save only the cropped image. I have used this on occasion with the R5II shooting sports if in reach-limited situations. The in-camera crop saved me time in post (dealing with thousands of images). It also made it easier to see the action in the EVF because so much of the dead space was cropped away.
While I don't mean to instigate a war here. I continue to shake my head over the years of controversy regarding megapixels. Yes indeed in the 1.6x crop mode one does lower the megapixels of the image produced. But what is slightly absurd here is nobody ever discusses or says what their intentions of the final image are. Are they going to do prints the size of posters? Are they going to produce a 8x10? Send on social media? Store on their website for viewing? I say this because I've noted when I take my R5MkII images and process them accordingly in say DXO Photolab 9 and finalize them, they often end up in the neighborhood of 5-7mp which more then fills my 38" calibrated 4K screen. I easily print 13x19 prints from such an image, even 22x17 on my Imagegraf Pro-1000 Canon printer with astounding results. Why in the heck are you folks getting your undies in a bunch over lowering megapixel counts using the crop mode of a 24mp camera when in the end the results remain outstanding, detailed and clean presentable to not just screen viewing at 100% but printing without much compromise. I've been at this for over 27 years now and have 13x19 prints from Canon's 3 and 4mp cameras that remain outstanding. This whole argument over megapixels gets real worn out and NOT realistic in the end. So I'll say if you have a R1 or R3 and want to use crop mode to get a more suitable frame when shooting by all means do it and don't worry about it. In post processing you can easily make it wonderful regardless.
mattchu wrote:
Does anyone use the crop mode on their R1 or R3 when shooting wildlife with a 300 2.8, 200-400 f/4, or any other longer tele lenses? Or any other lenses at all? Seems like such a beneficial tool that I've never explored. I know the file size is quite smaller and you can't print images that large. I am referring to the 1.6 crop mode.
Thank you,
Matt
I've used 8-10mp aps recently and its good , but part of that is having figured out some things about sharpening and using raw again.
Another thing you can do is just use jpegs or maybe heif. I'm not sure if 18-24mp aps jpegs are sharper than 8-10mp aps raw.
You light consider 24mp or more aps and or longer lenses. Ive used 400mm ff equivalent a ton rather have longer for birds in general. Even 600 or 800/11 might be an improvement, 200 800 probably good
gdanmitchell wrote:
I wonder about the things on that list.
Does the subject recognition system actually work differently when cropping? Yes, the image in the display may be larger, but are you sure that the AF system is relying on the display image rather than the actual sensor image? why do you think so?
At least on earlier Canon digital cameras, using a crop mode while shooting raw will not change the amount of memory used at all. The full image is still captured, though the default display is to show only the portion of it within the cropped area. I believe that cropped jpg images are smaller, but with them the file size is far less of an issue to begin with.
Again, I do not believe that cropping affects buffer capacity. Shooting jpg does, but again the buffer is quite large on those cameras if you are shooting jpgs.
In the case of our OP, crop mode probably makes little sense, and learning some very, very basic Lightroom techniques is a better idea. It is super easy to crop in LR — in fact, it is one of the easier things to do in the app.
I also agree that relying too regularly on cropping with these moderate MP cameras isn’t the greatest idea either. It might be a bit of a different idea with a higher-MP system, but even there if you are cropping a whole lot in cases like that described here it is time to consider a longer lens....Show more →
Yes, it is very reproducible that switching to crop mode can immediately have the camera recognize the subject or eye of a subject when it wasn't doing it a split second earlier in full frame mode. I tested this extensively with birds and it is undeniable.
Nikon also behaves this way.
Sony was weird in that it actually worked the opposite way and switching to crop mode would often cause the camera to lose the subject. This changed on the newer AI chip cameras and now it is working like Canon and Nikon.
IME, if you shoot in crop mode the file is smaller and therefore more files can be stored in the buffer. I don't have a Canon camera on hand to confirm this for Canon but it is certainly the case on my Sony cameras. Sony allows a buffer meter display line on the side of the screen and switching between full frame and crop changes the level of this meter.
The same way that shooting CRAW (or HE* for Nikon or Compressed RAW for Sony) gets you more files in the buffer.
I'm fairly confident that Canon was the same with crop mode and CRAW.
mattchu wrote:
Does anyone use the crop mode on their R1 or R3 when shooting wildlife with a 300 2.8, 200-400 f/4, or any other longer tele lenses? Or any other lenses at all? Seems like such a beneficial tool that I've never explored. I know the file size is quite smaller and you can't print images that large. I am referring to the 1.6 crop mode.
Thank you,
Matt
Rather than using crop mode or cropping in post-processing, put a TC on your lens, if you can afford losing 1 or 2 f-stops.
I have TC's and use them quite often; however, sometimes I would like more reach or even look to have a smaller lens like a 300 2.8 II that can have some extra reach without hauling around a heavier 400 2.8 or 600 f/4.
I haven't printed anything newer larger than a 13x19 in quite some time so not really worried about printing poster size images. I'll see how some of the images look with a crop.
mattchu wrote:
Does anyone use the crop mode on their R1 or R3 when shooting wildlife with a 300 2.8, 200-400 f/4, or any other longer tele lenses? Or any other lenses at all? Seems like such a beneficial tool that I've never explored. I know the file size is quite smaller and you can't print images that large. I am referring to the 1.6 crop mode.
Thank you,
Matt
I got sick of pp so I went back to shooting jpeg for a few years. The thing that got me back to raw is using 8-10mp cameras, trying to get the best sharpness out of the files. Although I printed large years ago off jpegs off the Rebel xt.
I found DPP to give better detail in raw in limited testing. You can't just run it through on defaults, though. It is a free program that you can download
