retrofocus wrote:
I just hope that the potential new owner revises the push only to focus Leica as luxury product and offers again camera and lens lines more reasonably priced for entry etc.
They are not going to kill their golden goose perched on a money tree, especially if it is their cash cow.
Desmolicious wrote:
They are not going to kill their golden goose perched on a money tree, especially if it is their cash cow.
That's not what I was implying - they can keep their luxury stuff going as is (their golden goose so to speak) but IN ADDITION, do what Leica did > 5 Years ago and bring back M-E camera lines, Summarit f/2.4 lines etc.
Fred Miranda wrote:
When did you start speaking in parables? :-)
When he was one of the first rightfully complaining about the new Leica M6 film scratch gate and had to cloak it with humor and metaphors to resist critics and brand enthusiasts.
There is literally nothing that would make Leica less unappealing to the mass market than the current prices, business practices, repair times, and dismal quality control.
Hopeful that new ownership can right the ship much like DJI has done by innovating at the same, if not lower (compared to inflation) price point.
Seems like a solid play for HSG. I wonder what Leica's penetration in Asia is compared to other luxury peers. It feels more shallow from a glance. I can't see them coming in and wrecking what makes Leica valuable since that heritage is what they likely plan to sell to the Asian market.
If Leica can survive Blackstone, they’ll survive HSG. I bet nothing really notable happens. Leica is worth a billion bucks. Plus they have the M12 around the corner. I’d imagine they’re pretty focused on that and not some talks between billionaires that likely don’t affect the workers.
Surfnsun wrote:
If Leica can survive Blackstone, they’ll survive HSG. I bet nothing really notable happens. Leica is worth a billion bucks. Plus they have the M12 around the corner. I’d imagine they’re pretty focused on that and not some talks between billionaires that likely don’t affect the workers.
That all depends who’s in charge. I’ve worked at a company where the venture capitalists took over and it ain’t pretty. Large stake, fine. Majority stake, potential disaster.
HSG is buying blackstone's minority share, so Kaufmann family is still technically in control, its just that they now have to answer to HSG instead of Blackstone. For better or worse, I personally don't see much changing. The standalone camera is in decline, and the market continues to shrink volume-wise. The current trend in the camera industry, and this includes the likes of Sony, is to grow their margins by pushing premium ILC cameras further upscale and increasing prices....Sony explicitly stated this in their earnings calls. In this environment, I don't see Leica changing course and pushing their FF cameras down-market price-wise, when the likes of Sony is already selling the A1II at $7K, a7rvi at $4.5K, and RX1RIII at $5k.
What we might see, if anything, is further licensing of Leica's brand for things like smartphones.
johnvanr wrote:
That all depends who’s in charge. I’ve worked at a company where the venture capitalists took over and it ain’t pretty. Large stake, fine. Majority stake, potential disaster.
Absolutely. And this is primarily a risk for a manufacturing company like Leica. Reducing production costs, maximizing profits. We see this at Hasselblad, too.
RoamingScott wrote:
There is literally nothing that would make Leica less unappealing to the mass market than the current prices, business practices, repair times, and dismal quality control.
Hopeful that new ownership can right the ship much like DJI has done by innovating at the same, if not lower (compared to inflation) price point.
I once got one of their hand signed QC cards. It was smudged.
Possibilities are always possible. I just don’t worry about things that are out of my control. Or at least I try not to…
johnvanr wrote:
That all depends who’s in charge. I’ve worked at a company where the venture capitalists took over and it ain’t pretty. Large stake, fine. Majority stake, potential disaster.
Mystik wrote:
Yeah I read that HSG may posture to take Kaufman's stake. The game changes if that happens.
This could be a net benefit for photographers if they do this. A more forward thinking owner for Leica can make them adapt more innovative tech and focus on the right tech investments (e.g. what exactly is the point of designing their own image sensor). They could have been a force in high end hybrid video or medium format photography as an example but instead invested in watches.
DJI showed that Hasselblad can both be luxurious and high tech. Prices though I don't think would come down at all.
The "corporate optimization" of the last 6-8 years has been hugely successful for Leica from a financial point of view, but it has in my opinion also led to increased prices, increased service turnaround times, the premature ending of product lines and most importantly too little innovation. I sincerely hope that Leica under new ownership can become a company again that innovates, and equally important also a company that is not afraid to cannibalize itself. This might be too much to ask for though...
tzhang4284 wrote:
This could be a net benefit for photographers if they do this. A more forward thinking owner for Leica can make them adapt more innovative tech and focus on the right tech investments (e.g. what exactly is the point of designing their own image sensor). They could have been a force in high end hybrid video or medium format photography as an example but instead invested in watches.
DJI showed that Hasselblad can both be luxurious and high tech. Prices though I don't think would come down at all.
Could be! Private equity is not always bad, and I don't know about HSG, but the predecessor firm, Sequoia, was instrumental in funding the growth a lot of the tech companies that are now household names.
But yes I don't see prices for Leica's core products coming down. Goes against the trend of the whole industry.
tzhang4284 wrote:
(e.g. what exactly is the point of designing their own image sensor).
The point is not at first obvious without some other background. Leica wants to deliver advanced features that current customers are asking for. They have invested serious effort and money to fully understand which features would most likely be compelling upgrades. Leica also wants to be able to offer these upgrades in its flagship M camera line without losing its beloved form factor. Also, Leica wants to be at the forefront of Image quality which means high resolution, high dynamic range, unique and beautiful color science.
Some of these features require more room than exists in the M body form factor. Something has to give. Leica's thinking that the most obvious place to make the most room in an M body is to get rid of the mechanical shutter. This requires an extremely fast sensor and processor to accomplish at the highest possible resolution. Doing this would tic all of the new feature list.
IBIS
Faster boot times
Higher frame rates
Fully silent shooting
More powerful flash sync speeds
More advanced AF or manual focus aids depending on platform.
You can see where this is going, fill in the wish list that speed enables.
Idealy a super fast or even global shutter sensor is the best path to accomplish this. But it must be able to be done at the top end of resolution and dynamic range. Leica would be happy to keep using Sony as a vendor for this. But Sony will neither supply an existing sensor from its open to buy line, nor as always will not custom fabricate at the base level a sensor (yes this includes Nikon, and always has. Sorry). To properly take advantage of such a sensor it must be matched with a super fast processor. Sony has such a processor but it won't sell it to any other camera manufacturer and the current processors from Fujitsu are not up to the task. So, Leica must look elsewhere for a solution.
Developing the sensor will take years. Since the effort only recently started it will not be ready for the M12. Leica along with others have been looking for a new processor supplier. The QualCom one is the most likely candidate. But so far no one has been able to get one to be fully compatible. This processor issue has been the cause of delays for the next generation of cameras for Leica and some other brands. Currently, the M12 is targeted for a February 27 release date. It will be without the custom sensor and processor so I think most likely an incremental update.
