fredmiranda.com

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1 2 3 … 110

111

112 … 137 138 end

which lens has the most 3D POP?

jojib
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #1 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

Pop? I'll take the Sony 135/1.8 GM any day whether it I'm using it for FF or APS-C camera.

Mar 06, 2026 at 12:37 PM

BokehBeauty
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #2 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

There are some images in the recent MF portrait thread that show 3D impression to me.
Hassi 90V - https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1930440/0#16970465
Hassi 55V - https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1930440/0#16970505
GF55 - https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1930440/0#16972212

Mar 07, 2026 at 03:30 PM

philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #3 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

These linked images are the exact opposite of 3D. This is not even the result of a visual interpretation, you only need to consider the dictionary definition:

'Three-dimensional (3D) describes objects, images, or spaces having depth, height, and width, making them solid or appearing to have volume rather than being flat. It signifies a, physical, or virtual space with three measured directions (e.g., axes).'

The key points: 'having depth'; 'appearing to have volume'; 'rather than (the opposite of) being flat'; 'three measured dimensions'. If anything, the cut out effect of these images reinforces the lack of 3D in them.

These images are textbook examples of two-dimensionality. Why? We can move our eyes left and right around the faces, and up and down. But here, you have a total absence of longitudinal depth in the image once the eye wants to move back, behind the subjects, and even there the lighting and lens qualities seriously impede the impression of depth. They are, in effect, 'cut outs':

'A cut-out in photography is the process of removing a subject from its original background to isolate it, often making the background transparent or white. Commonly used for e-commerce, product marketing, and collages, this technique focuses attention on the subject.'

We can add to this list: 'heavily abstracted backgrounds', which deliver only two layers - front and back, where the back contains nothing of visual value. To understand how strange this effect really is, imagine if you will, watching a movie composed of these images, with the subjects speaking. How long would you last? one minute, maybe?

This is not criticism of anything but the description. Many people like this model of 3D, despite it also being commonly referred to as 'layered', 'flat' and 'the green screen effect'. And good for them, of course.

But: 'Flat images are often considered unappealing because they fail to replicate the three-dimensional, high-contrast way the human eye perceives the world. They often lack depth, appear dull.'

Some of us don't like it, and disagreement is OK here too, of course. We prefer more reality in images of people, to better reflect the spontaneity, life, and context of the real world. Often more information is better, it sets the background to better understand the subject, invests them with greater meaning and coherence. It invokes curiosity too.

Mar 07, 2026 at 06:25 PM

philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #4 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

Even with longer lenses and subjects at close range, it's not too hard to use bokeh itself to convey three dimensionality. This technique will gain more traction from the burgeoning field of YouTube etc. videos. These demand content to be interesting enough to retain the attention of viewers. In this way, 'hybrid' video is having a subversive effect on stills photography, and it's why I am confident it will, given time, influence the desirability of 3D in stills work. 3D, as real life, is inherently about character.

�There's a quiet rebellion happening in photography right now. After a decade of manufacturers racing to produce the sharpest, most clinically corrected glass ever made, a growing number of photographers are deliberately reaching for something else. They want character.'

Here are a few images with similarly sized subjects as the linked images, showing how suitably drawn bokeh adds to the appeal of the subject, while adding greater visual interest to the image. You feel like you are in the scene. None of them would be improved with a green screen look. One of the problems of the cut out 3D model is that subjects are generally passive, immobile and isolated, with little to accompany them in the image but blown out blobs of over-abstracted content.

3D needs variable light and contrast

you can see depth so easily

you have to have confidence in your lens's bokeh

Mar 07, 2026 at 07:01 PM

Garmadon
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #5 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

I really like those , and even more the ones you had with the Batis . Did you ever compared them ?

jojib wrote:
Pop? I'll take the Sony 135/1.8 GM any day whether it I'm using it for FF or APS-C camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/media/135dsc00375-jpg.4608741/full.jpg
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/media/5_jb33648-jpg.4608756/full.jpg

Mar 08, 2026 at 09:27 AM

Nifty Fifty
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #6 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

philip_pj wrote:
Here are a few images with similarly sized subjects as the linked images, showing how suitably drawn bokeh adds to the appeal of the subject, while adding greater visual interest to the image.
The first image essentially illustrates the problems that arise when, instead of focusing on composition and background, you project all your thoughts onto the rendering of your lens. This results in a unsightly, intensely overpowering huge light spot that distract the viewer from the subject. Furthermore, the central placement of the main subject doesn't align with the head position. Even the best lens can't compensate for this.
In the second image, the centered placement works quite well, but unfortunately, the fact that the clearly visible background shows no drop in sharpness at all makes it difficult. This uniform blur across the entire image prevents the lines leading into the distance from fulfilling their purpose of creating depth. The sharp subject, and the blurred background, appear separate and as if glued together � exactly the opposite of what you described.
The third picture makes a very pleasant impression on me, although the mirror growing out of the shoulder and the sharp, black something in the lower right corner of the picture are disturbing.

Edited on Mar 08, 2026 at 12:52 PM · View previous versions

Mar 08, 2026 at 12:38 PM

jojib
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #7 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

Garmadon wrote:
I really like those , and even more the ones you had with the Batis . Did you ever compared them ?

Thanks! I love the Batis pop too but for busier backgrounds I prefer the GM as it is longer and creates more blur. Since this forum is normally about full frame lens topics, the lens that I have IMHO has some nice pop to it is the APS-C Zeiss Touit 32/1.8 for Sony e-mount. It doesn't have that 3D effect because the bokeh is quite nervous---but I like the pop. I normally bring it for travel because it is so small. This one is basically straight out of camera.

Mar 08, 2026 at 12:49 PM

zugzwang2
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #8 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

Nifty Fifty wrote:
The first image essentially illustrates the problems that arise when, instead of focusing on composition and background, you project all your thoughts onto the rendering of your lens. This results in a unsightly, intensely overpowering huge light spot that distract the viewer from the subject.

That's an interesting take. Based on my recollection of many other rather exotic travel street images that he has posted over the years, my own initial reaction was that that shot quite intentionally included that "intensely overpowering huge light spot" for context and was not a gross error that resulted from an experienced photographer considering only the rendering of the lens.

Mar 09, 2026 at 11:06 AM

Nifty Fifty
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #9 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

zugzwang2 wrote:
That's an interesting take. Based on my recollection of many other rather exotic travel street images that he has posted over the years, my own initial reaction was that that shot quite intentionally included that "intensely overpowering huge light spot" for context and was not a gross error that resulted from an experienced photographer considering only the rendering of the lens.

All the worse. I have nothing against environmental portraits. I admire people who have mastered this genre, but with all due respect, in my opinion, philip_pj definitely isn't one of them. Environmental portraits are meant to establish a connection between the person and their surroundings, which means that it should at least be somewhat recognizable what the environment is, which isn't the case here. The framing is very tight, the background too blurry to discern the person's environment and situation. There's some kind of advertising display that draws attention, not only because it's so garish, but also because it's showing a portrait. This advertising display says nothing; it adds nothing to the portrait. On the contrary. A slight camera pan to the right would definitely have improved the image, but especially a slight pan downwards, because that would have included the shoulders and made the head look less "decapitated." There was certainly enough space above the head. I suspect the focus point happened to be roughly in the middle, and the focus magnifier was simply activated without much thought, the lens focused on the eye, and the shutter was released. That's one way to do it. As a personal memento, especially considering the undoubtedly beautiful smile, it's more than acceptable, and ultimately, the person is the most important element in the picture. But I definitely wouldn't have used it as a shining example to teach others about anything.
Or to put it simply: A better created version with a "normal" lens would have made the image look better than the current super 3D lens version.

Mar 09, 2026 at 01:25 PM

philip_pj
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #10 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

A. Bokeh is the dominant carrier of 3D in many images, and there is plenty to say about it. My definition of it is the blurred effect that extends from the transition from in-focus content to the furthest distance shown in the image. So you can see it is very important to characterise it, to develop terminology for its different elements. For now, I want to show two things in this image below. Firstly, this 28/1.4 image is not one that can be taken with a slower 28mm, so it's nice to have something different. Secondly, it shows what we might call 'Chinese bokeh'. Lens brands from that country vary dependiong on their target audience, but there is a lot of commonality - a lack of agitation and twitchiness, coherence in dealing with challenging shapes of image motifs, and (happily for me) longitudinal correlation with distance from camera.

The blur encountered (it can feel like an encounter) in many Zeiss, Leica, Sony etc. images either aims to speed up to enter bokeh prematurely and with strangely disturbing transitions from in-focus to out-of-focus content; or you get a set of blobs (it's the only way to call them) and that is all that is left of important elements of the intended photo. They make you feel like you have faulty vision, despite knowing this is their bokeh. It often seems they regard bokeh as a kind of lens design garbage dump. The design community seem nonchalant about its significance to so many images of importance to artistry gained by using their lenses.

B. There are techniques you can use to better see 3D in images:

(i) look at objects (image motifs) in the bokeh field and estimate how far they are from the camera - how hard is it?.
(ii) are the distances between these objects easily separated in your vision as to how far they are from the camera?
(iii) Is it difficult to identify the objects, what they actually were, before being bokehed?
(iv) Can you see finer level detail that enhances your understanding of the object in the bokeh - its visual signature?
(v) For on-axis content with real world depth (roads, paths, creeks, ridges, etc.) is a clear gradation of definition and shape easily visible?
(vi) Are image objects inside the extended bokeh field pleasant to observe?

These visual examinations help you see what is happening in terms of image depth, and you learn how to differentiate and identify deep image lenses from flat images lenses, if it matters to you and your work, of course. Image depth can have a powerful positive influence on many, many images. It should also be aesthetic and discussable. Imagine below, this guy with just a flat abstract background with no motifs in the bokeh - it would be a less impactful image.

Thypoch Simera 28mm f1.4 at f1.4

Mar 13, 2026 at 01:36 AM

ruthenium
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #11 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

"Imagine below, this guy with just a flat abstract background with no motifs in the bokeh - it would be a less impactful image."

I don't know what "a flat abstract background" may mean. To my eye, the image could be more impactful if it didn't have the machinery and some garbage in the background and at the left edge of the frame. I might have liked better that figure against empty hills and the sky.
The present composition is ambiguous. It suggests a relationship between the subject and the haphazard industrial background, yet this relationship is uncertain. Is the subject passing by, just by chance? Is he a worker at the industrial site? Since there's no obvious connection, the background is distracting. Instead of looking at the subject, I keep looking at the haphazard background and guessing what this all is supposed to mean?

Just my personal perspective on the photo, of course. Others may see it differently.

Mar 13, 2026 at 06:25 AM

Nifty Fifty
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #12 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

What I like best is the conveyor belt that runs directly into the young man's neck.
That's what you call precision work.

Mar 13, 2026 at 06:48 AM

Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #13 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

philip_pj wrote:
A. Bokeh is the dominant carrier of 3D in many images, and there is plenty to say about it. My definition of it is the blurred effect that extends from the transition from in-focus content to the furthest distance shown in the image. So you can see it is very important to characterise it, to develop terminology for its different elements. For now, I want to show two things in this image below. Firstly, this 28/1.4 image is not one that can be taken with a slower 28mm, so it's nice to have something different. Secondly, it shows what we might call 'Chinese bokeh'. Lens brands from that country vary dependiong on their target audience, but there is a lot of commonality - a lack of agitation and twitchiness, coherence in dealing with challenging shapes of image motifs, and (happily for me) longitudinal correlation with distance from camera.

The blur encountered (it can feel like an encounter) in many Zeiss, Leica, Sony etc. images either aims to speed up to enter bokeh prematurely and with strangely disturbing transitions from in-focus to out-of-focus content; or you get a set of blobs (it's the only way to call them) and that is all that is left of important elements of the intended photo. They make you feel like you have faulty vision, despite knowing this is their bokeh. It often seems they regard bokeh as a kind of lens design garbage dump. The design community seem nonchalant about its significance to so many images of importance to artistry gained by using their lenses.

B. There are techniques you can use to better see 3D in images:

(i) look at objects (image motifs) in the bokeh field and estimate how far they are from the camera - how hard is it?.
(ii) are the distances between these objects easily separated in your vision as to how far they are from the camera?
(iii) Is it difficult to identify the objects, what they actually were, before being bokehed?
(iv) Can you see finer level detail that enhances your understanding of the object in the bokeh - its visual signature?
(v) For on-axis content with real world depth (roads, paths, creeks, ridges, etc.) is a clear gradation of definition and shape easily visible?
(vi) Are image objects inside the extended bokeh field pleasant to observe?

These visual examinations help you see what is happening in terms of image depth, and you learn how to differentiate and identify deep image lenses from flat images lenses, if it matters to you and your work, of course. Image depth can have a powerful positive influence on many, many images. It should also be aesthetic and discussable. Imagine below, this guy with just a flat abstract background with no motifs in the bokeh - it would be a less impactful image. ...Show more →

For me having a background in a portrait means having the background tell a story. If the background can't tell a story I prefer it to fade away so it doesn't take away from the focus on the person, but for me I take most of my portraits of my son and I want those portraits to tell stories that he remembers or convey images I want him to take away about himself. Below are five such portraits.

#1 This is a shot on the beach on a day he was really happy. I hope it evokes memories for him of that day.

#2 This is a shot when he was playing with his mother on a simple ordinary day in our living room at the time. I hope it evokes memory of a happy childhood playing with his mom.

#3 This is shot from when he was at camp and captures his excitement (I hope) for the activities as camp. He is an very active kid and I hope this captures that active nature, and he remembers that about himself.

#4 In this shot I hope to capture the assuredness he exemplified even as a toddler. To me and I hope to him it captures how he owned that bridge and that path.

#5 This is a shot the day after he was born. I hope it captures both the love he clearly already felt for his mother and her utter exhaustion in bringing him into the world.

I could care less about 3D and I think it is often way over emphasized. What I want my portraits to do is tell a story, and sometimes with lots of tries I find some that I hope do a decent job of doing that.

Mar 13, 2026 at 07:54 AM

chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #14 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

ruthenium wrote:
"Imagine below, this guy with just a flat abstract background with no motifs in the bokeh - it would be a less impactful image."

I don't know what "a flat abstract background" may mean. To my eye, the image could be more impactful if it didn't have the machinery and some garbage in the background and at the left edge of the frame. I might have liked better that figure against empty hills and the sky.
The present composition is ambiguous. It suggests a relationship between the subject and the haphazard industrial background, yet this relationship is uncertain. Is the subject passing...Show more →

Reality is many people live in those environments and removing the person from their environment just to make the picture more �pretty� or more �North American standards� really takes away from travel and cultural photography. The environment is what tells the story.

Mar 13, 2026 at 08:06 AM

chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #15 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

I love all these Sunday quarterbacks that can take shots of other people�s work yet don�t post anything themselves. They carry exactly zero weight.

Mar 13, 2026 at 08:09 AM

KarmaKramer
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #16 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

Step away from these argument boards for a while. You�ll all feel better.

Mar 13, 2026 at 08:36 AM

jojib
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.111 #17 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

Steve Spencer wrote:
For me having a background in a portrait means having the background tell a story. If the background can't tell a story I prefer it to fade away so it doesn't take away from the focus on the person, but for me I take most of my portraits of my son and I want those portraits to tell stories that he remembers or convey images I want him to take away about himself. Below are five such portraits.

#1 This is a shot on the beach on a day he was really happy. I hope it evokes memories for him...Show more →

Love those images Steve!

I've been on that bridge numerous times :-) I got to shoot their again. They are doing some major construction on the west end around that area. Hopefully they will re-open it soon (been closed for a few years now)----beautiful location for a photoshoot.

Mar 13, 2026 at 09:13 AM

ftllens
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #18 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

Think frequency values delta [like textures and some contrast gradients] between subject and background is primary driver.

Attached are samples of often mentioned cine lens. There's also tons of shots I took that have zero 3d effect.

Edited on Mar 22, 2026 at 10:45 AM · View previous versions

Mar 13, 2026 at 10:11 AM

Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #19 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

jojib wrote:
Love those images Steve!

I've been on that bridge numerous times :-) I got to shoot their again. They are doing some major construction on the west end around that area. Hopefully they will re-open it soon (been closed for a few years now)----beautiful location for a photoshoot.

Thanks Joji. I should also mention that you do a nice job with the backgrounds on the two pictures at the top of this page. I particularly like the first one that clearly indicates the winter environment. I have recognized a couple of West end locations in your shots as well. I don't live in Toronto any more but I visit 6 or 7 times a year, so I still like news about what locations work and don't work. It is too bad the Martin Goodman trail by the bridge is closed. I always like that location and it was easy to combine it with Humber Park just a bit West. We lived in a condo at Parklawn and Lake Shore when I took the shot on the bridge so it was only a pretty short walk to both locations. If you haven't shot in Humber Park, I would recommend it as a lovely place with lots of excellent views of the downtown.

Mar 13, 2026 at 12:47 PM

ruthenium
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.111 #20 · which lens has the most 3D POP?

chez wrote:
Reality is many people live in those environments and removing the person from their environment just to make the picture more �pretty� or more �North American standards� really takes away from travel and cultural photography. The environment is what tells the story.

This is a valid point. Indeed, there are two equally valid options: presenting the subject in the native environment, or fully disconnecting the subject by removing the environment (e.g., in a studio).
Including the native environment as the background makes sense when there is either an immediate and obvious to the viewer connection between the environment and the subject (e.g. a pilot against a flight deck), or when the photo has an informative caption (for interesting but less familiar environments or historical moments). In either case, the subject should be reasonably connected with the background. For a silly example, a baker standing at the entrance to a bakery is connected with the background. The same baker standing across a street from a bakery makes the connection ambiguous.

That picture I referred to is ambiguous. The position of the subject is relatively distant from the industrial site. I am left guessing as to whether there is a connection between the two. Blurring the background is intuitively understood as an attempt to disconnect it from the subject, rather than to emphasize a connection.
Another possible interpretation is related to what you proposed: "many people live in those environments and removing the person from their environment ... takes away from travel and cultural photography." Then, the question: is this true that the subject of the photo is surrounded on all sides by the industrialized environment? That there are other (outside the frame) plants and machinery on the left and on the right sides, with more junk strewn all around? Frankly, I don't have this feeling. I see an anonymous subject against an anonymous background - a snapshot that doesn't seem to be a good example of "travel and cultural photography."

Mar 13, 2026 at 01:13 PM

1 2 3 … 110 111 112 … 137 138 end
FM Forums \| Leica & Alternative Gear \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 110 111 112 … 137 138 end

which lens has the most 3D POP?

You are not logged in. Login or Register