To me, it seems the M11 is not what it needs to be. The slow electronic shutter and lack of IBIS are holding it back from what it really could be. The M12 with a global shutter and IBIS and 90MP? That would be the beast. I'm not a MP idiot, I find that 20+MP is more than enough for what I do. If you want a stone-cold photography machine, the M11 has let the MP outpace the other things to maximize performance. Not a bad camera, I just think that it is missing some bits that would make it a truly great camera. I'd rather get a M10 and wait for the M12. USB-C, bigger battery, and more MP? Nice, but not transformative.
My wife has offered to buy me a M11, but I think I'm going to get an M10 and wait to plunk down my $12,000 on an M12. Ugh...
Mar 23, 2022 at 01:00 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
anselwannab wrote:
To me, it seems the M11 is not what it needs to be. The slow electronic shutter and lack of IBIS are holding it back from what it really could be. The M12 with a global shutter and IBIS and 90MP? That would be the beast. I'm not a MP idiot, I find that 20+MP is more than enough for what I do. If you want a stone-cold photography machine, the M11 has let the MP outpace the other things to maximize performance. Not a bad camera, I just think that it is missing some bits that would make it a truly great camera. I'd rather get a M10 and wait for the M12. USB-C, bigger battery, and more MP? Nice, but not transformative.
My wife has offered to buy me a M11, but I think I'm going to get an M10 and wait to plunk down my $12,000 on an M12. Ugh......Show more →
The thing is for me, I don't want an M camera to be transformative. I want an M camera to be an M camera. Sure a faster electronic shutter or even a global shutter and IBIS would me nice, but not if they made the camera even a smidge bigger. In my use cases for the M there is limited use for a faster electronic shutter. I am fine with a quiet mechanical shutter almost all the time. As for IBIS, I might use it a bit but most of the time I would want a higher shutter speed or I would pull out a tripod. What for me would be those few in between cases, sure it would be nice but I can work around those situations pretty effectively almost all the time. I would rather have an M camera be the size and form factor that the M10 and M11 are than even be a little bit bigger like the M240 than have IBIS and/or a faster electronic shutter. There are lots of cameras that have IBIS and a faster electronic shutter, but there aren't any other cameras like an M.
Steve, my comment is more in the vein of newer models being better faster higher performance. Maybe the M bodies aren’t the place for that, and that’s where the SL series should shine. Do you perfectly frank I’d be totally fine with manual crank for “film advance“, frame advance. and if you have 24 megapixels and a good mechanical shutter, I don’t think you need an electronic shutter or IBS. I’d probably be happiest with a full frame “Epson “RD2. But if I’m gonna plunk down that kind of cash I will I want to get some thing that justifies that price level. Otherwise I’ll just, as I’m kind of doing, look at the Used market for the price performance relationship I’m looking for. I’ve waited for the M 11, so I can get an M 10 because of the form factor. Truth be told I really want a digital Minolta CL, as in a real CL from the 1970s.
Slow driver, we’ll be lucky if it only goes to 11.
anselwannab wrote:
To me, it seems the M11 is not what it needs to be...
My wife has offered to buy me a M11, but I think I'm going to get an M10 and wait to plunk down my $12,000 on an M12. Ugh...
So you have an opinion but you do not own one? The M10 is an excellent camera, the M11 too and one can choose any of them.
But waiting for the M12 to be "transformative", to have 90 Mpix whilst you say you do not need more the 20+ seems strange to me.
pmeheut wrote:
So you have an opinion but you do not own one? The M10 is an excellent camera, the M11 too and one can choose any of them.
But waiting for the M12 to be "transformative", to have 90 Mpix whilst you say you do not need more the 20+ seems strange to me.
Well, I'm a strange dude... And since I can read and think, I can have an opinion. I mainly was waiting for the M11 to push down M10 prices, because that hits all my wants including form-factor/size. Finances being what they are, the M11 is an option. I have an opinion of what the extra $4k will get me.
The 90MP was just an extrapolation of where the trend is with the cameras. More is more, more is better(?) usually? On the other attributes of Global Shutter and IBIS, that is just filling in the blanks. To me a global shutter, with out the need for the mechanical one to reset, would be optimal. With the video/posts of the 1/FL multipliers, it seems that some kind of stability enhancer would be optimal.
Is the M and 'old-style' camera, or in the spirit of the original M is it pushing the envelope when it comes to camera size, speed, and image quality?
Well, my Silver M11 is no more. There was an odd rangefinder frame alignment issue where all my images were tilted a little to the right.
I got a replacement but in black. Odd feeling finish, quite rough. Don't love it but I also don't hate it.
Just a warning to some, the sensor bifurcation issues still exist. I tried a display model M11at the store and it had a strong line down the middle.
My original silver model had it too but it needed many slider maxed out to the right in LR to appear, and then only the top half of the frame showed the line. My current Black M11 doesn't show it with any kind of adjustments in LR. The display model needed little in the form of editing. See below.
I also got a Zeiss Planar 50/2 ZM lens in silver, at a price I couldn't say no to. I kind of prefer it to the Voigtlander Nokton 50/1.5 ASPH II
hmzimelka wrote:
...Just a warning to some, the sensor bifurcation issues still exist. I tried a display model M11at the store and it had a strong line down the middle.
My original silver model had it too but it needed many slider maxed out to the right in LR to appear, and then only the top half of the frame showed the line. My current Black M11 doesn't show it with any kind of adjustments in LR. The display model needed little in the form of editing. See below.
hmzimelka wrote:
Well, my Silver M11 is no more. There was an odd rangefinder frame alignment issue where all my images were tilted a little to the right.
I got a replacement but in black. Odd feeling finish, quite rough. Don't love it but I also don't hate it.
Just a warning to some, the sensor bifurcation issues still exist. I tried a display model M11at the store and it had a strong line down the middle.
My original silver model had it too but it needed many slider maxed out to the right in LR to appear, and then only the top half of the frame showed the line. My current Black M11 doesn't show it with any kind of adjustments in LR. The display model needed little in the form of editing. See below.
I can't believe this issue still exists with the M11. I've never noticed it with my M10-R but will test it for sensor bifurcation today.
Thanks for your insight!
I can't believe this issue still exists with the M11. I never noticed it with my M10-R but will test it for sensor bifurcation today.
Thanks for your insight!
The sad part about it is the cameras we would reject due to the problem being very evident, will be claimed as "in-spec" by Leica. I had such a troublesome interaction with Leica over my Monochrom issue that I have lost a lot of respect and admiration for the brand.
I hope you don't find anything with your M10-R. I would recommend most people do not go looking for it.
hmzimelka wrote:
Well, my Silver M11 is no more. There was an odd rangefinder frame alignment issue where all my images were tilted a little to the right...
I had to send my silver M11 back today because 1) the rangefinder focusing patch was not completely clear, 2) the vertical alignment of the rangefinder was off, and 3) the frame lines were glitchy out of the box (most were missing, some where half-thickness). I had to flick the front frame lines lever, which made the frame lines show. After switching lenses, the frame lines temporarily disappeared when shooting, requiring another flick of the frame lines lever to fix it.
A correctly functioning rangefinder mechanism that can be reliably deployed and delivered as a correctly functioning part of the camera should be job #1.
highdesertmesa wrote:
I had to send my silver M11 back today because 1) the rangefinder focusing patch was not completely clear, 2) the vertical alignment of the rangefinder was off, and 3) the frame lines were glitchy out of the box (most were missing, some where half-thickness). I had to flick the front frame lines lever, which made the frame lines show. After switching lenses, the frame lines temporarily disappeared when shooting, requiring another flick of the frame lines lever to fix it.
A correctly functioning rangefinder mechanism that can be reliably deployed and delivered as a correctly functioning part of the camera should be job #1....Show more →
It's very sad reading about so many issues with Leica, and it's extremely aggravating having to go through it oneself.
My experiences with Leica are unbelievably bad with regard to QC and faulty products. I hope you can get sorted out quickly!
Besides the 50 year old lenses I inherited, every Leica lens I've tried was either not focus adjusted properly, decentred, or have some build issue.
In 2014 I went through 3 faulty Leica Monochrom bodies one faulty Elmarit Lenses and then just gave up.
Last year I got a Monochrom camera which had the bifurcation issue. And like your M11, the frame lines initially half engaged. It took a bit of lever action to unstick this but then I never had an issue again.
The silver M11 I initially ordered was faulty and had to be returned. The replacement was faulty with a very severe bifurcation line down the frame. I'm now on my third M11 which has been, touch wood, fine.
I have little respect for the brand left, and the customer service that I had to go through was simply unacceptable even if I had bought an entry level DSLR from Nikon or Canon.
What is so weird is all Leicas ship with that little quality control inspection card. I'm now thinking that is as reliable as the tags in my underwear saying it was inspected by #52.
And to be fair, I think #52 has been doing a better job as I've had no issues with my underwear.
