p.13 #1 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
But since they have already developed the lens-sensor assembly, they could reuse it with a different concept. Look at what fantastic product management DJI has done with Hasselblad. Zeiss fundamentally has no product management ability. Leica is a genius at it.
p.13 #2 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
kotmj wrote:
A massive failure in product management. Everyone else is doing well in fixed lens luxury cameras (Leica, Fujifilm). The “problem” to solve for in these sort of gratuitously expensive cameras is not as much software (and therefore features: Lightroom in your camera!) as possible. It is as little of it as possible. Zeiss totally has no clue why people bought the Leica Q. It’s not for convenience (no zoom…. is there an app?). Luxury products are not those with the most features or highest convenience.
I know. Right? Who could have guessed that in 2025 half the world's population would be editing their photos taken with a smart phone app on their ...smart phones. The other half editing their real camera photos on their smart phones too. Madness! 😎
p.13 #3 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
kotmj wrote:
A massive failure in product management. Everyone else is doing well in fixed lens luxury cameras (Leica, Fujifilm). The “problem” to solve for in these sort of gratuitously expensive cameras is not as much software (and therefore features: Lightroom in your camera!) as possible. It is as little of it as possible. Zeiss totally has no clue why people bought the Leica Q. It’s not for convenience (no zoom…. is there an app?). Luxury products are not those with the most features or highest convenience.
Strange. Ernst Leitz and Crl Zeiss started off from similar modest backgrounds.
Zeiss now has a turnover of 10.000.000.000, Leica one twentieth’s of that. I am sure, it is only because of continuously failed product management. As you state everybody else does fine, but Zeiss obviously makes the money.
Trust me, they know their field. Leica was nearly bankrupt 20 years ago. Zeiss never really faltered. But they might not invest where there is no money. Luxury items are sensitive birds. No one knows when the present boom might go bust. Solid products will always be in demand.
Zeiss also has several falling under their name like Microscopes/ Cine Products and so on.
On the photography side for my last 50 years in the business side they both failed at modernization and never adjusting to AF which they got their ass kicked by others. I love manual focus but today any Sony AF lens can workin manual mode as well. Maybe not great but still can
I always felt they both are great companies and certainly helped me in my lengthy career in photography. I was even a Leica ambassador at one time. My issue with both of them was it's not easy being a commercial shooter with either one of their lines in gear. I ran into many shortcomings of their product lines. One reason I turned to Sony was exactly that
Honestly as I said earlier I think this maybe a lost leader type scenario getting back in. Im not buying a 4k manual focus lens these days , I did plenty of that in the past but given the optical quality of Sony and others im not so sure of the survival rate they have today. The past is the past big time when it comes to photography. I buried my 8x10 view cameras decades ago.
No question I wish them the best and always will they certainly where a big part of me in my years
p.13 #5 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Zeiss, much like Schneider, makes a majority of their income from other avenues. Most recently, machine vision optics has been massive, but in Zeiss' case, medical is a big deal.
I'm not as close with Leica these days, but I do know the other divisions are working well.
Just pertaining to the ZX1. It was a good experiment, but the market for premium fixed lens bodies is likely smaller than you might think. There is demand, but for those who usually tackle this market, it's a nice way to utilize existing hardware platforms, often interchangeable systems, and create the fixed lens models. In the case of the ZX1, it was from the ground up a fixed lens system and a not-so-easy to approach one from some perspectives. Zeiss would have blown up the world if they made an interchangeable lens systems prior and built on that, but I suspect various contracts and interests won't allow that to occur for a bit if ever.
p.13 #6 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Knut. wrote:
Strange. Ernst Leitz and Crl Zeiss started off from similar modest backgrounds.
Zeiss now has a turnover of 10.000.000.000, Leica one twentieth’s of that. I am sure, it is only because of continuously failed product management. As you state everybody else does fine, but Zeiss obviously makes the money.
Trust me, they know their field. Leica was nearly bankrupt 20 years ago. Zeiss never really faltered. But they might not invest where there is no money. Luxury items are sensitive birds. No one knows when the present boom might go bust. Solid products will always be in demand.
I can't find a source at the moment, but I seem to think that camera lenses made up something like 3% of the Zeiss total. Almost a rounding error in the behemoth.
Their lithography line of business is what actually drives the company. (Similar to how Leica is diversified, but an order of magnitude bigger.)
p.13 #7 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
The amazing thing is that Schott and Zeiss are owned by a charity. The statutes of the foundation emphasize the social responsibility of the companies and the importance of a fair treatment of the employees.
- To provide their employees with exemplary social benefits;
- To allow their employees to develop their capabilities to the full;
- To promote important work in science and technology and
- To participate in projects of general social value.
No, shareholders, who want to siphon any money away, no private owners. A company that in principle owns itself. In a sense a meritocracy.
The workers who work there do solely to increase their own good. An ownership structure completely unknown to the American business world.
p.13 #8 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
'camera lenses made up something like 3% of the Zeiss total.'
Just a tiny sideline nowadays. I started monitoring their employee counts years back, when they abandoned the photographic field in the teens decade. The firm has grown like topsy in recent years! It's now a mega-corporation employing 46,485 people. Not exaggerating at all.
I got a bit suspicious of them when they produced the surveillance versions of the Loxias. Lens ranges like Ventum, Interlock, Interlock Compact, Dimension, ZM-I. Don't hear much about them, do you? How well are they selling?
'suitable for a multitude of drone applications, but also for stationary applications outdoors: inspections and surveys, three-dimensional model creation, damage assessments, monitoring of events, and much more.'
'Much more' indeed. Funny thing, they put the Otus series at the bottom of this paper on these 'black lenses' on this page:
You have to like the 85ML MTF graphs. (The 50ML MTF isn't bad either but not that top notch compared.)
Let's see what real world images look like also.
p.13 #15 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Very nice looking for Zeiss going manual focus here but im not so interested as in these focal lengths I would want AF but hope they do well for sure. Maybe more important is Sonys 50 and 85 glass is quite good so maybe a hard sell. Will see and something to watch
p.13 #18 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Jonas B wrote:
You have to like the 85ML MTF graphs. (The 50ML MTF isn't bad either but not that top notch compared.)
Let's see what real world images look like also.
I'm seeing a big focus on the 'feel in the hand'; I'm guessing that's the main selling point now that other lenses are very close optically. Very much seems like Cosina's playbook as well. Makes you wonder how much this is Zeiss and not Voigtlander+ or whatever you would want to call it.
The sample galleries look good, but not so stunning it makes you run to the store. At least the lenses are prices at $2499 and not $4000+ like the old Otus lineup.
p.13 #20 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
rscheffler wrote:
In high contrast transitions wide open there is some LoCA/color fringing...
I noticed the same and it seems to be a step away from the 'perfect correction' concept Zeiss emphasized so much with the original Otus lenses.
Makes me wonder what is behind this shift? It's not like Zeiss would not know how to make aberration free optics (they kind of invented it themselves with the original Otus lenses). It's also unlikely that 'it would have been impossible with lenses of this size'. Technology has advanced from the original Otus lenses and even if Otus ML lenses are smaller than the original Otus lenses, they are still quite big (67mm and 77mm filter sizes).
All this leads me to think that this is a conscious aesthetic decision from the Zeiss's part. To make room for the better bokeh characteristics, rendering or something else. I would love it if this is the case, as it would bring something interesting and provocative to the photo lens culture which so dominantly about technical perfection (sharpness, LoCA, etc.). This time it would be more about the lens rendering and characteristics, just as we wanted, right? This would be a nice bold statement to make things interesting again.
Personally I don't have a clue, but it is going to be a 100% certain that this is going to divide people's opinions and we going to have a fierce discussions about the LoCA/color fringing, is it Otus name worthy, etc. Time to get popcorn ready..
Ps. I have to say I quite like the sample images Zeiss provided, some beautiful rendering of colors, bokeh and all. Looks good to me..
EDIT: Looks like there might be some additional content at the Youtube: 'The ZEISS Otus ML lens family will be presented on February 26, 2025, at 11 am CET on YouTube (@ZEISSCameraLenses) by ZEISS experts.'
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