p.18 #2 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Really just seems like a 'different' option and a 'perfection' option like it used to be.
Unless this Otus ML line resolves 100MP for future cameras I am honestly wondering who's going to gravitate towards this series.
p.18 #3 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Alan Parker wrote:
Really just seems like a 'different' option and a 'perfection' option like it used to be.
Unless this Otus ML line resolves 100MP for future cameras I am honestly wondering who's going to gravitate towards this series.
A well balanced Zeiss Otus 50 ML lens review IMO, presenting the plusses and minuses with sample photo proof. Plus I had a peek at Canon mirrorless manual focus aid ( something I am not familiar with)
Feb 27, 2025 at 11:39 AM
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p.18 #4 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Alan Parker wrote:
Really just seems like a 'different' option and a 'perfection' option like it used to be.
Unless this Otus ML line resolves 100MP for future cameras I am honestly wondering who's going to gravitate towards this series.
I am the sort of person who gravitates toward this series. I prefer MF to AF for anything that isn't moving or moving slowly. Almost all my portraiture is of this sort of shooting. I love to shoot nature stuff that doesn't move at all. And this lens combines two sort of lenses I often buy now from Cosina: their fast Nokton lenses and their APO-Lanthar lenses. I like both of those series from Voigtlander and appreciate they are small, but they each have their compromises.
The Nokton are f/1.2-1.5 and generally have very nice bokeh. This lens is generally just as fast and I think will have at least as good of bokeh as (we'll see) and better control of aberrations than the Noktons. None of the Noktons are all that good at MFD either and I expect this lens which has a floating elements design to be much better close up. The cost is that it is much larger than the Noktons, so I will still want Noktons for travel but the lens size is still acceptable to me whenever I don't have to carry it for a long time.
The APO-Lanthars are fantastic lenses, but the bokeh on them is only average or so and they are "only," f/2. I love these lenses too, but this lens will have the advantage of being very well corrected at f/2 but able to shoot at f/1.4 as well and I expect that it will have notably better bokeh. Again, the cost will be a much larger lens than the APO Lanthars, and I will keep my APO Lanthars for some types of travel, but I will use this lens (if it checks out and I get it) when I don't have to carry it too far.
See the shots below for the type of shots (both portraits and nature) for which I think the lens would be great. Note that 5 of these 6 shots were with Zeiss MF lenses and the other one was with a Voigtlander Nokton. A huge percentage of my favorites shots are taken with such MF glass.
p.18 #5 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
RustyRus wrote:
He is just a paid talking head like the rest of them-
When the Panasonic S9 came out, that sort of sealed the deal for me with his video-
I thought the Zeiss ML 50 comparison with Sony GM 50 was both interesting and helpful.
FWIW. Of the many paid talking-heads we see on Youtube, Benj is a bona fide, experienced professional with a long history as a professional sports and currently wedding photographer.
p.18 #6 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
LBJ2 wrote:
I thought the Zeiss ML 50 comparison with Sony GM 50 was both interesting and helpful.
FWIW. Of the many paid talking-heads we see on Youtube, Benj is a bona fide, experienced professional with a long history as a professional sports and currently wedding photographer.
Not questioning his skill as a photographer and resume- His videos used to be gear he used etc.
I guess success is a good thing so happy for him but his videos aren't what they used to be.
p.18 #7 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Alan Parker wrote:
Really just seems like a 'different' option and a 'perfection' option like it used to be.
Unless this Otus ML line resolves 100MP for future cameras I am honestly wondering who's going to gravitate towards this series.
I wonder if that was the 55 Otus Chris sold me when he worked at TCS. Later on I switched to the ZE version so I could use the focusing aids. Eventually sold the ZF version.
I liked Chris' review gave real world examples of shortcomings.
I am still gravitating as I like the rendering and colours. The focus breathing was surprising then again after reading the interview LBJ gave us the link for it is not surprising.
p.18 #8 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
burningheart wrote:
Enthusiasts are not the target market for Zeiss. Absolutely there is some demand for ZM lenses but Zeiss sees more opportunity in Otus - covering 3 brands instead of 1 for the ZM.
Zeiss knows its market and it does not align with what many enthusiasts have in mind. I'll agree there is a potential market for GFX and L platforms.
If Zeiss knew its market so well, it would not have released the ZX1. At least when it comes to still photo centric lenses, this company has been largely flailing to find something that works for them.
Here is a list of abandoned product lines:
Zeiss ZX1 - massive embarrassment for them IMO.
Batis Lenses - AF Zeiss lenses for Sony? Sounds amazing save for all the Zony lenses available at the time.
Touit Lenses - They bothered to make some pretty good lenses for Fuji, but it didn't matter...Fuji users wanted Fuji.
Milvus Lenses - They should have been an AF line up for F and EF. I've never seen one in the wild.
Loxia Lenses - For some reason there was a secondary line up of Sony Zeiss lenses that was MF only, who knows why these weren't just Batis lenses...?
The ZF et al classic lenses worked because at the time, Zeiss was a 3rd party lens maker for legacy SLR systems with a quality focus. Tamron and Sigma were not doing what they do now. Those lenses were in production for a long time and had their fan base. The ZM line up gave Cosina a high-end line up which also floated their other M mount products, and again I'd say they were pretty successful. Lots of those lenses are out there and some can still be bought new. The 35/1.4 is still better than the Leica equivalent...tho, huge.
I almost never see Otus 1.0 lenses in the wild and I am in a position where I see lots of gear out there. They're so big, and there are so many other options that deliver the goods.
All of the above products had 'something' going for them, but they have to make sense in their respective categories. I think Zeiss is currently not thinking about the user experience and how that can be improved.
The current Petapixel review of the new 50/1.4 basically states 'This is a nice lens among many nice lenses, only this one doesn't AF and costs $2500.'
The product has to make some kind of sense, so no, I do not think Zeiss understands the market.
p.18 #10 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Interesting to read all the thoughts and interpretations. We will only know after the first proper reviews. I had the ZF 55 Otus in the past and when I look at the pictures from that time I notice that the pictures are very sharp, but also have a kind of nice softness over them. Forgive me that I don’t have a better description, but perhaps it is clear for some what I mean. It seems to me that I see the same in these new lenses.
p.18 #11 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
The 50mm market has so many good options.
I’m mostly interested in the 85 and maybe a 21 down the road? I prefer manual focus purely for the experience but have not had any MF lenses since I sold my Loxia 21/85 and CV 50APO, as so many good AF options have offered straight up better optics all around since then…….maybe I shouldn’t have sold the CV 50 APO 😭
It is just so fun to be out with a manual focus prime. I like the images I get with AF lenses and of course for sports and things it’s the only way I’m getting that many keepers; but it doesn’t feel as fun without the tactile feeling of interacting with a fully manual/mechanical lens.
Maybe the Otus 85 will combine the best parts of the Sony 85 GM 1 and 2; and maybe an Otus 21 can combine the best parts of the Voigtlander 21 1.4 and Sony 20 1.8 and Sony 24 GM.
p.18 #13 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
philip_pj wrote:
MTF shows us lens contrast ('sharpness' is the lowest line pair) in percentages of 'perfection', left vertical axis.
Here are the f1.4 charts of the new Otus ML 85mm f1.4 and its predecessor lens, the DSLR Otus 85/1.4. See the flatness of the Otus ML. Some of have used the Loxia 85mm wide open, it's lovely. The Loxia 85mm f2.4 is shown at f2.4 below the Otuses' charts. It's slower but look at the results, they are 'Otus tier', from a very stable lens with still fine separation/bokeh. Last is the Otus 100mm f1.4 DSLR lens shown wide open.
This was my point about the Loxia lineup really showing some strength. I hate to use the term 'value' with Zeiss but yeah, you're getting a lot with new Loxia's, let alone for the prices they can be had second hand.
p.18 #14 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Who knows, maybe one day we may see slow ZM lenses performing good in digital, kind of 21/f4.5, 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8. I always was attracted by them, but never bought them for my sony camera
p.18 #15 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
'Who knows, maybe one day'
They would not pass Fred's tests, I don't think. If Zeiss are indeed back in photography apart from the very high end and if these MLs go well enough for them, we might see regular size lenses in M-mount.
The reason to expect more normal size lenses in M-mount is that the M-EVF rumors are getting stronger in 2025 - it's only the rangefinder gear keeping M lenses so small. People use the huge bolt-on Visoflex, but it sits uncomfortably atop such tidy designs as the M bodies are. Cosina always increase the size of lenses they migrate to E/Z/RF mounts, like they have been freed of the restrictions.
And M-mount is becoming more in demand in the light cine / video world which is not as far removed from stills photography as many think.
They made the Nano range specifically for Sony's cine camera range, that's why I was surprised to see these Otuses come along at similar weights to the cine Nanos. Any Otus ML wide angles will be very interesting.
p.18 #16 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
philip_pj wrote:
They made the Nano range...[so]...I was surprised to see these Otuses come along at similar weights
I don't think we can assume a still photographer's decision not to buy a Nano speaks to how much weight they're comfortable with. The geared focus rings (and to a lesser extent the 86mm fronts) make those very much cine-only housings. (Though it is interesting the new Otus will share their abnormally-long focus throw, which I'd also associate mostly with cine lenses [except the 720 degree throw of my Leica 100 AME]).
p.18 #17 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
All this talk of an extremely heavy, extremely large, extremely expensive 50mm lens caused my to get off my duff and order a used copy of the light, svelte, affordable Loxia 50/2.0. The Zeiss MTF charts claim it'll be sharp at the corners at f/5.6, and it is! Yay!
Yes. I'm being snarky. Sorry. I get it that superb optical performance at f/1.4 really is pretty neat, and worth it to some folks. But the Loxia lenses really are truly flipping brilliant, as mentioned by others above.
p.18 #18 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Lee, I did not explain well. Zeiss have an already existing cine range of Nanos that might have made a better choice for release as E/Z/RF lenses in smaller lens bodies, the way DZO/Thypoch has managed its two ranges: Simera and Simera-C (both sets are in reality cine lenses, identical optical formulae).
Converting cine lenses back to stills lenses is like taking off medieval body armor, so they would have been light enough to interested many more buyers. (see below the 24mm and 35mm Nanos)
They average about $4000, and are tailor made for Sony E-mount. That indicates similar pricing for the glass to the Otuses. Most weigh a little under 1000 grams even as full blown cine lenses. They carry 86mm filter threads and have front diameters of 95mm, with focus throws of 280 degrees. They should have comfortably come down to 550-800 grams each with stills rehousing.
They are contemporary too, were released last year, and they have short MFDs too. I agree they should move away from the long focus throws for stills lenses, maybe a compromise of 150 degrees.
And they are the focal lengths people are moving to in both fields: 18-24-35-50-75-100, all at T1.5 (f1.4). So I see it as a missed opportunity, as they could have been repurposed pretty fast. Who knows how long the new ML Otus series will take to reach six lenses? They might not get there.
I just think it's a shame. Fast and fairly light 18mm and 24mm lenses in 2025? Yes, please. Here is the data table for them:
p.18 #19 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
It's well and good to put Zeiss on a pedestal. I mean, of course, they and Leica invented most of it over the last hundred years. I don't want to throw shade on that reputation.
But it's important to see the progress the manual focus lens sector has made in their absence, looking particularly at Cosina Voigtlander. Zeiss left at the same time that Cosina stepped up with its astonishing modern era lens production - in the middle of last decade.
Zeiss had a few dribs and drabs left over for later release, like the Otus 100mm. Not many may realise that the Milvus series was actually made to be cine-ready, so they had already moved away from lightish and usable stills lenses per se:
What did Cosina manage in the ensuing decade? Bearing in mind whether Zeiss had ever done (or would ever do) such lenses, here is a summary:
. APO lenses at 28mm (new); 35mm; 50mm (2); 65mm; 90mm and 110mm.
. A trio of fast mid-focal length lenses: 35/1.2; 40/1.2 and 50/1.2.
. Two fine macros, the 65/2 (1:2) and the 110/2.5 (1:1).
. the best in class 50/1 Nokton.
. Portrait lenses at 75mm (several) and 90mm (two).
. A host of vintage-inspired lenses from last century.
Their current portfolio amounts to:
Leica M-mount: 35 lenses; Sony E-mount: 13 lenses, plus many more for Nikon, Canon and Fuji. They produce many variants for many lenses and they make so many lenses they discontinue them very frequently (too frequently in fact).
They have probably actively been selling around 100 lenses in the last ten years, including the discontinued ones. Now ask yourself: where would we be without Cosina? Credit where it's due: they have done a great job, for Leica as well as Sony and Nikon.
p.18 #20 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
speedgraphic wrote:
Loxia Lenses - For some reason there was a secondary line up of Sony Zeiss lenses that was MF only, who knows why these weren't just Batis lenses...?
Because Batis lenses are Tamron lenses and have nothing in common with Loxias except for the fake marketing Zeiss badge.
