p.13 #1 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
rbf_ wrote:
Hey good to see you Greg! I know the aspect ratio dial has become somewhat of a polarizing feature here and elsewhere but I just don't see why. If you don't want to use the dial for in camera composing in different aspect ratios just leave it on 4:3. Others seem to like the idea of having it.
Thanks! Hey... It is a new and very expensive Fuji camera, and this is a Fuji camera equipment discussion forum, so everyone repeatedly discussing and a disagreeing about a dedicated external physical dial is going to happen for about three months after announcement. It will come up 400 more times at least.
I like the external dedicated physical dials that Fuji is famous for, but not this one. Nine permanently marked crop settings on a dial is way too much so cumbersome that it makes no sense to me when another dial can be programmed for quick access to the 2 or 3 crops you might actually ever use, and then you can do it without taking your eye off the EVF. And that is besides the biggest point of all - that it can all be done better in post without any of that hit and miss mess.
But the marked dial is there and permanent and it can't be reprogrammed, so it is what it is, and it would not keep me from buying the camera. Only not having stabilization can accomplish that impossible task (me not buying a sexy new GFX camera).
p.13 #3 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
RustyRus wrote:
You sound fun at Parties!!!
65:24 is XPAN-
Everyone calls it that
Fuji should embrace it and put it on the dial. Sounds like you disagree and thats ok- But seeing XPAN on the dial of a camera I am going to buy instead of 65:24 sounds pretty damn good to me-
Even the link you sent me to calls it the XPAN. in the title.
RustyRus, I've provided you with the link below for your next party. So when the topic comes around to the 100RF's format dial nomenclature you'll be prepared to impress the young creatives about the 65:24 format. You'll notice the iPhone app developer has the depth of knowledge to give the XPan & TX-1 co-billing as the inspiration.
You can then celebrate your new gained knowledge while impressing that attractive you had your eye on. You're welcome :-)
p.13 #5 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
Greg7579 wrote:
I get what you are saying but let me give you some advice on shooting with GFX (or any camera with a sensor). Most of us go to the trouble and expense of shooting GFX because of the amazing resolution / image fidelity / IQ and often because of the unique 4:3 native aspect ratio of that sensor. Don't throw that resolution away unless you really have to or specifically want to for that one shot. (In my opinion, that is best done in post processing, not by spinning a dial with 9 aspect ratios on it.)
Most GFX shooters like the sensor because of the native aspect ratio 4:3. If you don't like 4:3 then I would argue it is silly to shoot GFX.
So, look for ways to compose your shot and frame with 4:3. I'm not saying not to crop, which is what you are doing when you pick one of these other "aspect ratios." That dial has 9 aspect ratios. I would not be fiddling with it too much if I were you. I think of that dial, and I just sort of chuckle.
You guys shoot however you want, but one of the beauties of a camera equipment discussion forum is you sometimes learn from other photographers, and I learn everyday reading them.
I will say this. If you look at my work, you will see I shoot a lot of very wide 20mm shots with the 20-35 (my favorite GFX lens). I shoot it and know in my mind that I will often be cropping the bottom of the frame (foreground at me feet) off to some degree for an XPan type of look at 20mm. But that is best done in post on a large high res monitor where I can see what is going on and make a decision about exactly where to crop. Like my old buddy (the Grumpy Old Dictator Jim Kasson) taught me many years ago, if you are going to crop, crop in one direction. If you crop in two directions, you probably made a bad decision on positioning or composition of the shot.
I think that dial with the 9 "aspect ratios" is going to cause some less experienced photographers to learn some bad habits. ...Show more →
Greg, this all sounds a bit close-minded. You've worded this like "I know what GFX shooters like", when in fact it's just what you like and might be what some other GFX shooters like. Also keep in mind not every Fujifilm 44x33 product moving forward will be designed to appeal to the existing GFX user base – they want to grab other piles of cash not aligned with the GFX.
p.13 #6 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
highdesertmesa wrote:
Greg, this all sounds a bit close-minded. You've worded this like "I know what GFX shooters like", when in fact it's just what you like and might be what some other GFX shooters like. Also keep in mind not every Fujifilm 44x33 product moving forward will be designed to appeal to the existing GFX user base – they want to grab other piles of cash not aligned with the GFX.
I think the GFX aspect ratio dial is similar in conception and in the intended user experience to the Fuji Film Simulation Modes--they are both modifications of the shooting experience that make it possible to play with elements while shooting that are traditionally done much later in post-processing, if they are ever done at all. Many people enjoy this.
There are lots of ways to use a camera and to enjoy making a photo, and there are many types of photographers who enjoy making pictures in their own ways. Fuji has had a lot of success with their Film Simulation Modes. No reason to diss them or the Aspect Ratio dial.
p.13 #7 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
Super curious if my Haoge hood will fit on this since the filter thread is the same as the X100. I hate the flared "squarehood" style it is shipping with, needlessly grabs on corners.
It's obvious why they didn't use the Q style, but Haoge is great for that.
p.13 #9 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
spbs wrote:
Looks like an interesting camera, sort of a digital mamiya 7
Will wait for the MKII with IBIS
The Mamiya 7 had an unbelievable film simulation mode. Have a number of these simulations hanging on my wall to this day. Somehow we managed without IBIS in those days.. or even moderate-high ISO. We are so spoiled by technology…. I include myself.
p.13 #10 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
I am editing this post because I screwed up the quote function again, and thus responded to the wrong guy. This is in response to my old friend High Desert Mesa, who said:
Greg, this all sounds a bit close-minded. You've worded this like "I know what GFX shooters like", when in fact it's just what you like and might be what some other GFX shooters like. Also keep in mind not every Fujifilm 44x33 product moving forward will be designed to appeal to the existing GFX user base – they want to grab other piles of cash not aligned with the GFX.
And I responded to him by writing this brilliant essay:
No no no, my old friend. Nope.,.. You sound exactly like the old grumpy dictator (who I always loved) who is way past his Mod term limit over there on the MF DPR test and spoke chart shooting site where disagreement with King K over his Royal Proclamations are silenced like Joan of Arc being burned at the stake. 🥸
Jim gets furious at me for using the term "we" or "GFX Shooters" as a colloquialism when you know exactly what I mean. When I say "we" it is not absolute, but after talking to hundreds of GFX and Hassy shooters in the past 6 years I think I can say that the great majority of the current ones do not shoot jpeg and probably don't care about having a dial with 9 "aspect ratios" for fake cropping a raw or real cropping an in-camera jpeg on the body. They "all" crop in post. That is not an absolute scientific poll or definitive statement of fact. There is no "all" in anything (except that we are all going to die at some point.)
It is a general observation and form of expression, like when I say, "We spend the money on GFX because of the res and IQ," which infuriates the King but of course both he and you know that is true.
Let me tell you something else "we" don't do. "We" don't call the MF sensor a measurement. That is something that the Great Tyrant Dictator (😁 has tried and failed to do in the GFX and Hassy marketplace for years. No one does it but him and 3 other guys I know. That whole ridiculous naming convention effort is all in deference to MF and LF film sizes of the past and does nothing but cause confusion in the present, as if there were companies selling MF cameras that have a different sensor size than GFX and Hassy (P1 doesn't count so don't even try to go there).
Anyway, you have a good point about that ridiculous dial that I didn't consider. Fuji knows that guys like me, you, James, Doppler, Mike, and 20 other very experienced and serious GFX shooters you and I know that aren't going to be cropping jpegs in camera with a dial or worrying about getting some in-camera crop lines on a raw file when they open it in LR or C1. They aren't messing around with that gimmick.
But you have a point.... Maybe Fuji is trying the attract Fuji X and other MFT, APSC and entry-level equipment FF shooters who can now enter the MF world because of this one amazing camera (the GFX Q4), without having to invest in other GFX gear. It is a standalone for many potential customers.
They probably think differently than you and me. You have a good point there. Fuji ain't stupid, and they don't care if I don't like a dedicated dial because they know I'm not gonna use it but will buy it anyway.... I was stunned that anyone would want this dedicated dial with 9 crop sizes on it. But you are onto something there. Good post - except for your scolding me (like Kasson did for 6 years) for saying "we" and "GFX Shooters" and also, I reprimand you and am providing your first warning for using that stupid measurement name for our MF sensor. 😁
p.13 #11 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
chiron wrote:
I think the GFX aspect ratio dial is similar in conception and in the intended user experience to the Fuji Film Simulation Modes--they are both modifications of the shooting experience that make it possible to play with elements while shooting that are traditionally done much later in post-processing, if they are ever done at all. Many people enjoy this.
You know... I've been using Fujifilm digital cameras for a long time, starting with the X10, then the first X100, then the X-E1 soon after its release. And what you describe is something I've come to see as central in their products, especially the cameras. It's about catering to the moment you are there, camera in hand. To me, Fujifilm have long been looking at that moment from an enjoyment perspective, more than just the practical/functionality/convenience side.
One way of doing that is by offering superior build quality, like Leica. But you can't out-Leica Leica. At least not at the Fujifilm price point. And I think they've been very succesful in finding other ways.
Their design language speak loudly to me about how this is a vital part of the thinking behind their products. I very much agree and think that the AR ratio dial, including how it's so centrally placed, is a result of that.
I use RAW 99% of the time from my X cameras, and 100% of the time with the other brand I'm using. But having the film sims in camera is a very strong reason for me to use Fujifilm cameras most of the time, since I love being able to visualize what I'm shooting that way. The AR dial on the RF is for me more of the same thing – a part of a fundamental philosophy.
p.13 #12 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
I won't say there's consensus among the YT talking heads, but a theme that keeps recurring at the end of videos is: "I don't normally shoot the way Fuji wants me to with this camera, but after just trusting the process, I found it really enjoyable and fresh in a way I wasn't expecting".
I think a lot of people are bringing 1) a lack of experience with things like digital teleconverters and in-body aspect ratio visualization and 2) a mindset based on MILC systems into their starting notions of what shooting this camera is, and are thusly confused as to why you'd want to use these tools in the field and not back at home.
It's nice to hear that even people who don't already do those things, unlike me, end up enjoying the camera for what it's doing, even if it's not a camera they'd necessarily "convert" to long term.
There's only so much you can explain to someone about why shooting X-Pan in the field is "better" than cropping at home, and it's cool that this camera is showing them why it could be so.
p.13 #13 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
bwcolor wrote:
The Mamiya 7 had an unbelievable film simulation mode. Have a number of these simulations hanging on my wall to this day. Somehow we managed without IBIS in those days.. or even moderate-high ISO. We are so spoiled by technology…. I include myself.
I guess youre meant to use it at high ISOs and the fact that it is medium format will make it less noisy than the same ISO on FF. Probably should go see how other GFX cameras perform at high ISOs to see if the noise is usable for me. Anyway IBIS would solve this so hopefully will be added in the future.
I like that you can get framelines in the viewfinder like the Q2/Q3 and not thrown off by the digital zoom if youre starting with 100mp. The dedicated knob for aspect ratio seems overkill, i dont usually change that that often, probably a dedicated ISO would be more useful, maybe it can be reprogrammed
Im not a bokeh guy so f4 is fine just gets back to the high ISO concerns with a slower lens. Will be interested to how this lens performs relative to their other GFX lenses.
Seems like a cool camera, happy fuji is making it but not instantly sold
p.13 #14 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
Greg7579 wrote:
I am editing this post because I screwed up the quote function again, and thus responded to the wrong guy. This is in response to my old friend High Desert Mesa, who said:
Greg, this all sounds a bit close-minded. You've worded this like "I know what GFX shooters like", when in fact it's just what you like and might be what some other GFX shooters like. Also keep in mind not every Fujifilm 44x33 product moving forward will be designed to appeal to the existing GFX user base – they want to grab other piles of cash not aligned with the GFX.
And I responded to him by writing this brilliant essay:
No no no, my old friend. Nope.,.. You sound exactly like the old grumpy dictator (who I always loved) who is way past his Mod term limit over there on the MF DPR test and spoke chart shooting site where disagreement with King K over his Royal Proclamations are silenced like Joan of Arc being burned at the stake. 🥸
Jim gets furious at me for using the term "we" or "GFX Shooters" as a colloquialism when you know exactly what I mean. When I say "we" it is not absolute, but after talking to hundreds of GFX and Hassy shooters in the past 6 years I think I can say that the great majority of the current ones do not shoot jpeg and probably don't care about having a dial with 9 "aspect ratios" for fake cropping a raw or real cropping an in-camera jpeg on the body. They "all" crop in post. That is not an absolute scientific poll or definitive statement of fact. There is no "all" in anything (except that we are all going to die at some point.)
It is a general observation and form of expression, like when I say, "We spend the money on GFX because of the res and IQ," which infuriates the King but of course both he and you know that is true.
Let me tell you something else "we" don't do. "We" don't call the MF sensor a measurement. That is something that the Great Tyrant Dictator (😁 has tried and failed to do in the GFX and Hassy marketplace for years. No one does it but him and 3 other guys I know. That whole ridiculous naming convention effort is all in deference to MF and LF film sizes of the past and does nothing but cause confusion in the present, as if there were companies selling MF cameras that have a different sensor size than GFX and Hassy (P1 doesn't count so don't even try to go there).
Anyway, you have a good point about that ridiculous dial that I didn't consider. Fuji knows that guys like me, you, James, Doppler, Mike, and 20 other very experienced and serious GFX shooters you and I know that aren't going to be cropping jpegs in camera with a dial or worrying about getting some in-camera crop lines on a raw file when they open it in LR or C1. They aren't messing around with that gimmick.
But you have a point.... Maybe Fuji is trying the attract Fuji X and other MFT, APSC and entry-level equipment FF shooters who can now enter the MF world because of this one amazing camera (the GFX Q4), without having to invest in other GFX gear. It is a standalone for many potential customers.
They probably think differently than you and me. You have a good point there. Fuji ain't stupid, and they don't care if I don't like a dedicated dial because they know I'm not gonna use it but will buy it anyway.... I was stunned that anyone would want this dedicated dial with 9 crop sizes on it. But you are onto something there. Good post - except for your scolding me (like Kasson did for 6 years) for saying "we" and "GFX Shooters" and also, I reprimand you and am providing your first warning for using that stupid measurement name for our MF sensor. 😁
As I said in a response to HighDesertMesa that should have gone to you, I think the GFX aspect ratio dial is similar in conception and in the intended user experience to the Fuji Film Simulation Modes--they are both modifications of the shooting experience that make it possible to play with elements while shooting that are traditionally done much later in post-processing, if they are ever done at all. Many people enjoy this.
There are lots of ways to use a camera and to enjoy making a photo, and there are many types of photographers who enjoy making pictures in their own ways. Fuji has had a lot of success with their Film Simulation Modes. No reason to diss them or the Aspect Ratio dial. You are simply not the photographer for whom it is intended. So what?
p.13 #15 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
RoamingScott wrote:
I won't say there's consensus among the YT talking heads, but a theme that keeps recurring at the end of videos is: "I don't normally shoot the way Fuji wants me to with this camera, but after just trusting the process, I found it really enjoyable and fresh in a way I wasn't expecting".
I think a lot of people are bringing 1) a lack of experience with things like digital teleconverters and in-body aspect ratio visualization and 2) a mindset based on MILC systems into their starting notions of what shooting this camera is, and are thusly confused as to why you'd want to use these tools in the field and not back at home.
It's nice to hear that even people who don't already do those things, unlike me, end up enjoying the camera for what it's doing, even if it's not a camera they'd necessarily "convert" to long term.
There's only so much you can explain to someone about why shooting X-Pan in the field is "better" than cropping at home, and it's cool that this camera is showing them why it could be so....Show more →
so true, its basically an X-pan , its not for everyone and probally more suited to pros shooting landscapes and printing big.
p.13 #16 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
Greg7579 wrote:
I am editing this post because I screwed up the quote function again, and thus responded to the wrong guy. This is in response to my old friend High Desert Mesa, who said:
Greg, this all sounds a bit close-minded. You've worded this like "I know what GFX shooters like", when in fact it's just what you like and might be what some other GFX shooters like. Also keep in mind not every Fujifilm 44x33 product moving forward will be designed to appeal to the existing GFX user base – they want to grab other piles of cash not aligned with the GFX.
And I responded to him by writing this brilliant essay:
No no no, my old friend. Nope.,.. You sound exactly like the old grumpy dictator (who I always loved) who is way past his Mod term limit over there on the MF DPR test and spoke chart shooting site where disagreement with King K over his Royal Proclamations are silenced like Joan of Arc being burned at the stake. 🥸
Jim gets furious at me for using the term "we" or "GFX Shooters" as a colloquialism when you know exactly what I mean. When I say "we" it is not absolute, but after talking to hundreds of GFX and Hassy shooters in the past 6 years I think I can say that the great majority of the current ones do not shoot jpeg and probably don't care about having a dial with 9 "aspect ratios" for fake cropping a raw or real cropping an in-camera jpeg on the body. They "all" crop in post. That is not an absolute scientific poll or definitive statement of fact. There is no "all" in anything (except that we are all going to die at some point.)
It is a general observation and form of expression, like when I say, "We spend the money on GFX because of the res and IQ," which infuriates the King but of course both he and you know that is true.
Let me tell you something else "we" don't do. "We" don't call the MF sensor a measurement. That is something that the Great Tyrant Dictator (😁 has tried and failed to do in the GFX and Hassy marketplace for years. No one does it but him and 3 other guys I know. That whole ridiculous naming convention effort is all in deference to MF and LF film sizes of the past and does nothing but cause confusion in the present, as if there were companies selling MF cameras that have a different sensor size than GFX and Hassy (P1 doesn't count so don't even try to go there).
Anyway, you have a good point about that ridiculous dial that I didn't consider. Fuji knows that guys like me, you, James, Doppler, Mike, and 20 other very experienced and serious GFX shooters you and I know that aren't going to be cropping jpegs in camera with a dial or worrying about getting some in-camera crop lines on a raw file when they open it in LR or C1. They aren't messing around with that gimmick.
But you have a point.... Maybe Fuji is trying the attract Fuji X and other MFT, APSC and entry-level equipment FF shooters who can now enter the MF world because of this one amazing camera (the GFX Q4), without having to invest in other GFX gear. It is a standalone for many potential customers.
They probably think differently than you and me. You have a good point there. Fuji ain't stupid, and they don't care if I don't like a dedicated dial because they know I'm not gonna use it but will buy it anyway.... I was stunned that anyone would want this dedicated dial with 9 crop sizes on it. But you are onto something there. Good post - except for your scolding me (like Kasson did for 6 years) for saying "we" and "GFX Shooters" and also, I reprimand you and am providing your first warning for using that stupid measurement name for our MF sensor. 😁
I think you misunderstand the ratio function. They put a marker in the RAW files so that when you import the RAWs, they are cropped exactly (and non destructively) as you shot them. So for me, shooting with an aspect ratio is simply pre-visualizing how the RAW will look on import. It’s not just a JPEG feature.
p.13 #17 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
I was on the fence about this camera as rumors were trickling-in because of the potential downsides of the f/4 lens and lack of IBIS. But, after doing some quick math I realized for landscape, travel, street, documentary and even near-macro this has the potential to be the top compact rangefinder-style camera on the market—ever. If you understand the appeal of the X100, then you should appreciate this even more because we get:
* At 35mm (native), an X100 with GFX resolution for all aspect ratios. Better than any full frame on the market at 28mm focal length. I’m particularly looking forward to panoramas.
* At 45mm crop (35mm FF equivalent), an X100 with resolution matching the best full frame small cameras out there (Q3, M11, a7CR) for all aspect ratios.
* At 63mm crop (50mm FF equivalent), similar resolution as an X-pro3 with an 35mm XF lens.
* At 80mm crop (63mm equivalent), comparable resolution to a micro 4/3 camera with a 30mm lens.
Obviously this comes with compromises. The f/4 lens won’t be a new bokeh king. We miss several stops of ISO advantage IBIS brings to slow shutter shots. This won’t be the camera of choice for studio, astro, wildlife, action…but neither was the X100 or any rangefinder for that matter.
I’m excited to try it. The only apprehension I have is whether the lens quality will be high enough.
p.13 #18 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
Erich6_ wrote:
I was on the fence about this camera as rumors were trickling-in because of the potential downsides of the f/4 lens and lack of IBIS. But, after doing some quick math I realized for landscape, travel, street, documentary and even near-macro this has the potential to be the top compact rangefinder-style camera on the market—ever. If you understand the appeal of the X100, then you should appreciate this even more because we get:
* At 35mm (native), an X100 with GFX resolution for all aspect ratios. Better than any full frame on the market at 28mm focal length. I’m particularly looking forward to panoramas.
* At 45mm crop (35mm FF equivalent), an X100 with resolution matching the best full frame small cameras out there (Q3, M11, a7CR) for all aspect ratios.
* At 63mm crop (50mm FF equivalent), similar resolution as an X-pro3 with an 35mm XF lens.
* At 80mm crop (63mm equivalent), comparable resolution to a micro 4/3 camera with a 30mm lens.
Obviously this comes with compromises. The f/4 lens won’t be a new bokeh king. We miss several stops of ISO advantage IBIS brings to slow shutter shots. This won’t be the camera of choice for studio, astro, wildlife, action…but neither was the X100 or any rangefinder for that matter.
I’m excited to try it. The only apprehension I have is whether the lens quality will be high enough. ...Show more →
Like I said, the GFX sensor holds up if you crop down to a 24mp result, so yeah, it's like having a bag of cameras and lenses in one camera. That's the appeal. You get it or you don't.
p.13 #19 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
Now that the RF is finally here and I’ve had a couple of days to digest material about it… I get what they’re going for and see the appeal, but my personal feelings are still kinda mixed. Mostly due to the choice of the fixed 28mm f/4 lens. I like and shoot 28mm, but spend far more time in the 35mm-50mm range.
Have minor concerns about the lack of IBIS. That said, I mostly shoot 120 film and 95% of those shots are without a tripod. I don’t have any concerns about holding those steady at the appropriate shutter speeds, so I’m guessing that I’ll just have to try the RF in person to see how much it matters for me and the way I shoot.
Hoping to see more feedback in the world soon from folks who weren’t floated out loaner units or didn’t get one for free.
p.13 #20 · Fujifilm GFX100RF Discussion and Image Thread
Erich6_ wrote:
Obviously this comes with compromises. The f/4 lens won’t be a new bokeh king. We miss several stops of ISO advantage IBIS brings to slow shutter shots. This won’t be the camera of choice for studio, astro, wildlife, action…but neither was the X100 or any rangefinder for that matter.
I’m excited to try it. The only apprehension I have is whether the lens quality will be high enough.
This is true, but again it depends on what/where you shoot. My X2D/XCD combination provides 11/3 stops with an aperture of f/2.5 and claimed seven stops of IBIS. Very different ISO setting in low light. This isn’t important if low light/night shooting are not on your wish list. I suspect that your apprehension regarding the lens quality is misplaced. The lens will likely be up to the task.
in the title.
has tried and failed to do in the GFX and Hassy marketplace for years. No one does it but him and 3 other guys I know. That whole ridiculous naming convention effort is all in deference to MF and LF film sizes of the past and does nothing but cause confusion in the present, as if there were companies selling MF cameras that have a different sensor size than GFX and Hassy (P1 doesn't count so don't even try to go there).