p.4 #1 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
There's lots of disadvantages to film.
First there's the cost, then there's the idea that you're stuck at an ISO for around 24 frames, and an enormous time lag between when you take the photo and when you can share them with friends. As an owner of significant chunk of old Canon FD mount stuff and some film F-mount stuff, it can kind of suck, but it has a place and time.
With the Fuji/Nikon recipe system, you can skip post-processing, get the jpegs straight to your smartphone, and practically live blog your photos to your friends.
p.4 #2 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
nineblade wrote:
For me, as a Zf owner, I'd say it is on the larg'ish side, but not crazily so. If it was 10% lighter, it would be perfect. Really, my major wants are:
- A real dedicated AF-On button
- 36 Mpx instead of 24
- A better grip so that you don't get these situations where everybody is screwing in a grip on the bottom
- Auto-ISO on the ISO dial
A fast readout is a 'nice to have', but part of the allure of the Zf is the sound and feel of the mechanical shutter. The Zf, Z6, and Z7 are my favorite mechanical shutter sounds.
I think Sony has a lot of good bases covered, but the A7V was exactly what was needed. Theoretically, the A7CII can be regarded as the entry level camera.
I don't know what Sony can do on the tactility/manual game. Theoretically, a lot of their cams do provide lots of controls: exposure comp dial, lots of lenses with aperture rings, but there are SO many challenges to achieve a good retro Zf-like body.
The e-mount is so limiting that it's hard to adapt a bunch of lenses from other mounts, but perhaps that isn't necessary. You already have Sigma I series, Voigtlander, etc. that give you that tactility....Show more →
I hear you on the pleasure of a nice mechanical shutter (I still love my XD11), but I guess I've gotten used to using the A1 as a silent street camera. I think Sony's always been pretty great at functionality and customization (they need to catch up with Nikon's focus confirmation tech), but coming from Canon DSLRs (after Canon and Minolta film SLR's), I think they've always fallen short on ergonomics. It would be a massive challenge for them to do a retro camera, and I know they'd never do it, but I'd certainly buy one, and I think a lot of the people who enjoy the more manual side of things would, too. I've also never thought of the E-mount as limited, but I guess Nikon does have the edge there.
p.4 #3 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
Sarpedon wrote:
I hear you on the pleasure of a nice mechanical shutter (I still love my XD11), but I guess I've gotten used to using the A1 as a silent street camera. I think Sony's always been pretty great at functionality and customization (they need to catch up with Nikon's focus confirmation tech), but coming from Canon DSLRs (after Canon and Minolta film SLR's), I think they've always fallen short on ergonomics. It would be a massive challenge for them to do a retro camera, and I know they'd never do it, but I'd certainly buy one, and I think a lot of the people who enjoy the more manual side of things would, too. I've also never thought of the E-mount as limited, but I guess Nikon does have the edge there....Show more →
I have a Nikon D4 for my digital retro vibes, and I love the mirror clack and shutter sound of it. There is something so pleasing about that sound.
I always have an X100 series cam in my bag (a V currently) so that fulfills my retro vibes but I can say after more than a decade of using retro digital cameras, the only 'retro' control I use is the aperture ring. I almost never use the shutter speed dial - if I do, it's only to put it in bulb.
What I'd love to see is Sony make a body that's more focused on MF lenses since there are so many amazing ones made for the E mount system. Nikon has done a much better job of integrating solid MF aids so I'd like to see that...distance sales, eye detect that changes colour when in focus, maybe a digital prism or split screen? I don't know, but it would be fun to see what engineers could come up with.
p.4 #4 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
Dave Sanders wrote:
I have a Nikon D4 for my digital retro vibes, and I love the mirror clack and shutter sound of it. There is something so pleasing about that sound.
I always have an X100 series cam in my bag (a V currently) so that fulfills my retro vibes but I can say after more than a decade of using retro digital cameras, the only 'retro' control I use is the aperture ring. I almost never use the shutter speed dial - if I do, it's only to put it in bulb.
What I'd love to see is Sony make a body that's more focused on MF lenses since there are so many amazing ones made for the E mount system. Nikon has done a much better job of integrating solid MF aids so I'd like to see that...distance sales, eye detect that changes colour when in focus, maybe a digital prism or split screen? I don't know, but it would be fun to see what engineers could come up with. ...Show more →
I'm usually doing shutter and aperture manually with auto ISO, or aperture or shutter priority. I like the X100s a lot but I'm not sure I want to invest in that system; if I do another system I want to keep everything cross-compatible. Currently trying to talk myself out of buying a used M10 for my rangefinder lenses. Absolutely agree on the manual aids, especially the green eye detect box. No reason Sony can't do that now. They need to up their firmware game in general.
p.4 #6 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
bmike-vt wrote:
Self reflection, maybe.
Fits as well here as some of these posts.
That's why I said what's the point. You don't need to read the thread and can skip easily. Seems very stupid for you to write something yourself think is no use, especially such a long one.
p.4 #7 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
You are missing the point.
tctmp wrote:
That's why I said what's the point. You don't need to read the thread and can skip easily. Seems very stupid for you to write something yourself think is no use.
p.4 #8 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
bmike-vt wrote:
You are missing the point.
That's why I said your writing is cryptic. But if you want to be a drive by shooter taking cheap shots on an internet forum, and derive your daily "happiness" and dopamine high from it, you are living in a pathetic state.
p.4 #9 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
Please re-read this thread. Or any of the other heated threads on here. Replace any time there is a cameras, lens, or sensor reference with running shoes, or hammers, or trekking poles, or best home made diuretics - and maybe you’ll understand my point.
I live in Switzerland with an amazing family. I hike and paraglide in the Alps. I run my own consulting business. I make images with a camera when I’m so inspired to do so. I check in here in hopes of finding nice images, thoughtful discussion, and new people to follow and check out. My life is anything but pathetic. I doubt yours is either.
tctmp wrote:
That's why I said your writing is cryptic. But if you want to be a drive by shooter taking cheap shots on an internet forum, and derive your daily "happiness" and dopamine high from it, you are living in a pathetic state.
p.4 #10 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
I would say an old camera is an old camera is an old camera.
Sony likes to keep bodies like A7RIV, A7III in the market at lower price point but it does not solve the issue of gaps in the lineup or not having entry level bodies at all other than ZV line targeted at vloggers. Sony has nothing versus Z5II or Z50II, some fanboys will say A7III is also a 24mp FF but have you held a A7III recently in hands and compared it to the newer Z's?.
It's not just about end result. Otherwise A7RII's 42mp (2015) is still top notch. People buy cameras and pursue photography for an experience, for a journey not end goal of having 42mp's on the screen to pixel peep. A7III is so dated, especially in operations. Newer Nikon Z bodies turn on in a flash like Apple's M series chips. You can turn off the camera to save battery life because they turn on instantly.
p.4 #12 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
bmike-vt wrote:
Please re-read this thread. Or any of the other heated threads on here. Replace any time there is a cameras, lens, or sensor reference with running shoes, or hammers, or trekking poles, or best home made diuretics - and maybe you’ll understand my point.
I live in Switzerland with an amazing family. I hike and paraglide in the Alps. I run my own consulting business. I make images with a camera when I’m so inspired to do so. I check in here in hopes of finding nice images, thoughtful discussion, and new people to follow and check out. My life is anything but pathetic. I doubt yours is either.
Sorry you can have your own expectation, but your standard is not the only benchmark whether someone's post should be allowed or not. As I said earlier, if it does not meet your needs, dont read and waste time. No need to come in and impose your standard to get your dose of "superiority". Doing so only affirms the opposite, regardless what you claim you are. There are stupid writing too in your own posts on other threads, but you see no one insists to prove you wrong.
Finally people with real self worth dont need to brag to make their point, and I thought swiss people especially dont like to brag. Your last post just proved my previous point.
p.4 #13 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
Sarpedon wrote:
I hear you on the pleasure of a nice mechanical shutter (I still love my XD11), but I guess I've gotten used to using the A1 as a silent street camera. I think Sony's always been pretty great at functionality and customization (they need to catch up with Nikon's focus confirmation tech), but coming from Canon DSLRs (after Canon and Minolta film SLR's), I think they've always fallen short on ergonomics. It would be a massive challenge for them to do a retro camera, and I know they'd never do it, but I'd certainly buy one, and I think a lot of the people who enjoy the more manual side of things would, too. I've also never thought of the E-mount as limited, but I guess Nikon does have the edge there....Show more →
Yeah maybe Sony can reference Minolta bodies. I don't know much about them but it would be a good reference. What's weird is that Sony theoretically has good game on extra knobs and dials, and is usually rich with custom buttons, but for some reason style and tactility just isn't their game. I'm totally cool if they stick with their terminator cyborg utilitarian vibe.
For the mount, they might not need all the adapter flexibility that the Z mount has. X-mount doesn't have it and they're doing fine (if you consider like 6% market share ok). The E-mount lens library is so large that maybe nobody will care about adapting old lenses.
p.4 #14 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
Dave Sanders wrote:
I have a Nikon D4 for my digital retro vibes, and I love the mirror clack and shutter sound of it. There is something so pleasing about that sound.
I always have an X100 series cam in my bag (a V currently) so that fulfills my retro vibes but I can say after more than a decade of using retro digital cameras, the only 'retro' control I use is the aperture ring. I almost never use the shutter speed dial - if I do, it's only to put it in bulb.
What I'd love to see is Sony make a body that's more focused on MF lenses since there are so many amazing ones made for the E mount system. Nikon has done a much better job of integrating solid MF aids so I'd like to see that...distance sales, eye detect that changes colour when in focus, maybe a digital prism or split screen? I don't know, but it would be fun to see what engineers could come up with. ...Show more →
Yeah, I think my brain is most comfy in Aperture mode, where I set aperture and ISO, and let the camera float the shutter speed.
But shooting sports, I've gotten some experience setting shutter speed and aperture, and letting the camera decide ISO. So due to that, been getting more comfy with dial settings.
p.4 #15 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
nineblade wrote:
Yeah, I think my brain is most comfy in Aperture mode, where I set aperture and ISO, and let the camera float the shutter speed.
But shooting sports, I've gotten some experience setting shutter speed and aperture, and letting the camera decide ISO. So due to that, been getting more comfy with dial settings.
Same - A mode is what I'm in most of the time, M for when I'm on a tripod shooting landscapes. Physical aperture ring is my new 'must' on any lens I buy - I'm just so attuned to using one again. I have ISO on my thumb wheel, so left hand aperture ring, right thumb ISO.
I have, on rare occasion, used S when attempting to shoot action, especially birds with my nephew. This is not my forte
That said - I do like the look of the dials, and since I change a lot from Auto ISO to a specific chosen ISO, I appreciate being able to see that by just looking at the top plate on my X100V.
I'd never begrudge anyone a good-looking knurled dial. I feel like the A1/A9 series are almost there - on a non sport cam, the left top dial could be repurposed for a shutter speed/ISO combo like Fuji...I don't think they need to be two separate dials like on the Df.
p.4 #16 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
Are a lot of people actually disappointed in the a7v release? According to SAR and a few other things I have seen online, it makes it sound like a good number of people are disappointed. If that's true, what is the reason? I understand the a7v might not be the best video camera on the market, but it's a big update over the video capabilities of the a7iv and a very big update over the photo capabilities of the a7v. I feel like I am missing something. Were people really expecting an FX3 or a1ii for 1/2 the price?
p.4 #18 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
Cliff L. wrote:
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head...
That's kind of sad. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind a FF camera with a 50mp global shutter sensor, 16 stops of dynamic range, 120fps raw, 8k internal raw, and open gate for 2k... But we need to be somewhat realistic about technical limitations and what bleading edge tech costs to make. Otherwise, we are just setting people up for disappointment and unrealistic expectations. There are reasons why cinema cameras still easily break 20K + if not 50K + setups without a lens. But a 3k hybrid camera currently runs circles around any 3k photo or video camera we had 10 years ago. If you can't produce compelling content with an Sony a7v, Nikon Z6iii or Canon R6III I doubt buying a cinema camera is going to magically fix your content issues, and if so, you're probably not spending your time complaining about a 3k camera online, you're spending your time planning your movie.
p.4 #19 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
DWOfPaul wrote:
That's kind of sad. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind a FF camera with a 50mp global shutter sensor, 16 stops of dynamic range, 120fps raw, 8k internal raw, and open gate for 2k... But we need to be somewhat realistic about technical limitations and what bleading edge tech costs to make. Otherwise, we are just setting people up for disappointment and unrealistic expectations. There are reasons why cinema cameras still easily break 20K + if not 50K + setups without a lens. But a 3k hybrid camera currently runs circles around any 3k photo or video camera we had 10 years ago. If you can't produce compelling content with an Sony a7v, Nikon Z6iii or Canon R6III I doubt buying a cinema camera is going to magically fix your content issues, and if so, you're probably not spending your time complaining about a 3k camera online, you're spending your time planning your movie....Show more →
Maybe people are worried Sony started baking in NR in RAW ...
p.4 #20 · Sony’s missing camera. There is a hole in the lineup.
DWOfPaul wrote:
If you can't produce compelling content with an Sony a7v, Nikon Z6iii or Canon R6III I doubt buying a cinema camera is going to magically fix your content issues...
From what I see, a large percentage of "content creators" are still using iPhones and Canon Powershot cameras.
...