neekon123 wrote:
Do you have any evidence or sources that supports your claim that Sonys processor are so so far ahead of everyone else? Feels like conjecture on your part. The A7rVI is a brand new camera, with state of the art tech. The Nikon Z9/Z8 are 5-6yrs old now, you’re comparing tech thats generations ahead.
Also keep in mind, there isnt a single Sony Mirrorless E-Mount camera that does internal RAW, and this new magic A7RVI and the flagship A1II, only do 8K30 whereas the inferior processor of the Z8/Z9 does 8K/60 internal RAW video
The processor issue is absolutely not conjecture. It is well known by engineers involved in the industry. It is absolutely what has been holding up the Z9/Z8 next generation cameras. As you pointed out they are pretty old releases at this point. This has been hurting Nikon profitability in public ways now.
Processor is of course not the only issue when a company is not in control of it's core technologies. There are licensing issues at play too. As you have pointed out Nikon's performance in some areas indicate that it may be capable of better in other areas.
This issue has slowed the release of other manufacturers products as at this point. Also not conjecture on my part.
I think that issue will become more broadly known over the next year. Thom Hogan recently has been exposed to the issue and published an incomplete reference to the problem on his site. Take a look at that for a little more insight.
gdanmitchell wrote:
The rule of thumb used to be that a 2.1 improvement was meaningful, though there few situations in which you will be able to see a deference between 60MP and 100MP.
That being said as well, the difference between the A7RVI at 67mp is not that much compared to the 45mp of the Z8 and R5II,
neekon123 wrote:
That being said as well, the difference between the A7RVI at 67mp is not that much compared to the 45mp of the Z8 and R5II,
For data transfer and processing purposes it is a huge difference. Also although the A7RIV sensor is listed as stacked it is a significantly different stacking architecture than than the A1/AII Z9/Z8 sensors which are DRAM driven stacks for speed while the A7RIV is a processing stack orientated towards DR IQ at the expense of some scanning speed. Very different things.
1bwana1 wrote:
The processor issue is absolutely not conjecture. It is well known by engineers involved in the industry. It is absolutely what has been holding up the Z9/Z8 next generation cameras. As you pointed out they are pretty old releases at this point. This has been hurting Nikon profitability in public ways now.
Processor is of course not the only issue when a company is not in control of it's core technologies. There are licensing issues at play too. As you have pointed out Nikon's performance in some areas indicate that it may be capable of better in other areas.
This issue has slowed the release of other manufacturers products as at this point. Also not conjecture on my part.
I think that issue will become more broadly known over the next year. Thom Hogan recently has been exposed to the issue and published an incomplete reference to the problem on his site. Take a look at that for a little more insight. ...Show more →
Im not an engineer in the industry, but without sources or evidence it feels very much like conjecture. I could make a similar claim that Sony processors are behind because they can’t get internal RAW video on their smaller cameras or cant get 8K RAW over 30p on any of their cameras, which is true.
Claims require sources and evidence otherwise they are conjecture.
Do you have a link to Thoms article? I checked his site and saw something about the “what needs to change in expend”.
But im not sure thats the one you are referring to.
I do think that Nikon needs to wake up a bit and release something or do a development announcement.
The chip issue in every industry is well known, and storage prices are skyrocketing because everything is going to AI.
But there is no evidence that Sonys processors are that much better than the competitors that it gives them some unfair or obvious advantage.
This video by Tony Northrup identifies some serious failings in the A7R6 compared to specs.
I was surprised that he was not more surprised. Maybe it is just his relaxed manner. In the model shoot and subsequent portrait shoot there were repeated failings to focus accurately and the flash synch didn't work properly much of the time. In the action shoot of skateboarders the camera often failed to acquire the target. The high ISO broke apart very easily. And the IBIS comparison showed it worked better in the older A7R5 than in the newer A7R6, contrary to the specs.
My take away is, I need to see more real world in-depth tests please, and not just trust the claims. Should be possible soon, now that the camera is on general release from today and available to neutral reviewers.
Jun 01, 2026 at 10:37 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
1bwana1 wrote:
For data transfer and processing purposes it is a huge difference. Also although the A7RIV sensor is listed as stacked it is a significantly different stacking architecture than than the A1/AII Z9/Z8 sensors which are DRAM driven stacks for speed while the A7RIV is a processing stack orientated towards DR IQ at the expense of some scanning speed. Very different things.
Hi Steve,
This is mostly right, as I understand it, but the stacked layer on the A7r VI is for parallel processing. That aids the DGO for better low ISO DR, but it also increases sensor scan speed. It just doesn't increase sensor scan speed nearly as much as the DRAM based stacked layer in the A1/A1 II/A9/A9II/Z9/Z8/R5 II. Since Sony now has two very different types of stacked sensors we are going to have to very clear what we mean when we say a fully stacked sensor because what is stacked in that extra layer (and perhaps other layers too eventually) matters.
This is mostly right, as I understand it, but the stacked layer on the A7r VI is for parallel processing. That aids the DGO for better low ISO DR, but it also increases sensor scan speed. It just doesn't increase sensor scan speed nearly as much as the DRAM based stacked layer in the A1/A1 II/A9/A9II/Z9/Z8/R5 II. Since Sony now has two very different types of stacked sensors we are going to have to very clear what we mean when we say a fully stacked sensor because what is stacked in that extra layer (and perhaps other layers too eventually) matters....Show more →
Exactly correct. I think Sony should have made these differences more clear when announcing the specifications of tha A7RIV. Not doing so has led to some misunderstandings.
deepDEEPpurple wrote:
Not to be offensive, but I couldn't give two hoots what you think.
Not to be offensive, but how could that phrase ever not be offensive?
neekon123 wrote:
Im not an engineer in the industry, but without sources or evidence it feels very much like conjecture. I could make a similar claim that Sony processors are behind because they can’t get internal RAW video on their smaller cameras or cant get 8K RAW over 30p on any of their cameras, which is true.
Claims require sources and evidence otherwise they are conjecture.
Do you have a link to Thoms article? I checked his site and saw something about the “what needs to change in expend”.
But im not sure thats the one you are referring to.
I do think that Nikon needs to wake up a bit and release something or do a development announcement.
The chip issue in every industry is well known, and storage prices are skyrocketing because everything is going to AI.
But there is no evidence that Sonys processors are that much better than the competitors that it gives them some unfair or obvious advantage. ...Show more →
I understand your desire for direct sourcing. I am posting what I feel comfortable posting. You are free to accept the information or not. But there are serious and expensive efforts to mitigate the issue being quietly made in the industry currently. My guess is that this will become more known over the next few years.
neekon123 wrote:
Do you have any evidence or sources that supports your claim that Sonys processor are so so far ahead of everyone else? Feels like conjecture on your part. The A7rVI is a brand new camera, with state of the art tech. The Nikon Z9/Z8 are 5-6yrs old now, you’re comparing tech thats generations ahead.
Also keep in mind, there isnt a single Sony Mirrorless E-Mount camera that does internal RAW, and this new magic A7RVI and the flagship A1II, only do 8K30 whereas the inferior processor of the Z8/Z9 does 8K/60 internal RAW video
Sony cameras can't do internal raw for one simple reason that has nothing to do with its hardware - Red owns the patent for compressed raw video and sues the shit out of anyone that tries to implement it. Nikon got into hot water when they rolled out Nraw, then there was a settlement and the suit was dismissed. Nikon bought Red shortly after.
Uncompressed raw files are obnoxiously large, ask any Canon or Zr user or anyone shooting Prores raw. Blackmagic figured out a workaround to the Red patent for Braw compression. Options like Prores and Braw require a license that Sony clearly isn't willing to pay.
And raw video isn't super hardware taxing, remember the tiny OG Blackmagic pocket shot raw video 13 years ago. Canon 5d2's from 2008 can output raw video in much higher resolutions than the internal 1080p thanks to incredible work of the Magic Lantern team. Any recent Sony has many times the processing power of both of those cameras combined.
joychris wrote:
Sony cameras can't do internal raw for one simple reason that has nothing to do with its hardware - Red owns the patent for compressed raw video and sues the shit out of anyone that tries to implement it. Nikon got into hot water when they rolled out Nraw, then there was a settlement and the suit was dismissed. Nikon bought Red shortly after.
Uncompressed raw files are obnoxiously large, ask any Canon or Zr user or anyone shooting Prores raw. Blackmagic figured out a workaround to the Red patent for Braw compression. Options like Prores and Braw require a license that Sony clearly isn't willing to pay.
And raw video isn't super hardware taxing, remember the tiny OG Blackmagic pocket shot raw video 13 years ago. Canon 5d2's from 2008 can output raw video in much higher resolutions than the internal 1080p thanks to incredible work of the Magic Lantern team. Any recent Sony has many times the processing power of both of those cameras combined.
joychris wrote:
Sony cameras can't do internal raw for one simple reason that has nothing to do with its hardware - Red owns the patent for compressed raw video and sues the shit out of anyone that tries to implement it. Nikon got into hot water when they rolled out Nraw, then there was a settlement and the suit was dismissed. Nikon bought Red shortly after.
Uncompressed raw files are obnoxiously large, ask any Canon or Zr user or anyone shooting Prores raw. Blackmagic figured out a workaround to the Red patent for Braw compression. Options like Prores and Braw require a license that Sony clearly isn't willing to pay.
And raw video isn't super hardware taxing, remember the tiny OG Blackmagic pocket shot raw video 13 years ago. Canon 5d2's from 2008 can output raw video in much higher resolutions than the internal 1080p thanks to incredible work of the Magic Lantern team. Any recent Sony has many times the processing power of both of those cameras combined.
Canons RAW is compressed, the Zr using compressed RAW, and ProResRAW is compressed. if Sony really wanted to put RAW video in their cameras they have options that have nothing to do with RED. They either dont have the power in their chips to do it, dont want to pay licensing fees to ProResRAW or they dont want to put it in cameras that aren 25k and up(Burano and Venice 2)
I am very well versed in the cinema and codec space. CinemaDNG, ARRIRAW and Sony full X-OCN are all uncompressed, but ProResRAW, Canon CinemaRAW LT and any RAW format the Zr use are all compressed.
EB-1 wrote:
How long after ordering was open did you order? I thought it was at 930AM EDT, but that was a scam and it was later, but which time I was unable.
EBH
Not sure .. but it was a couple of minutes after the presentation ended.
I think the email I received was 1015 EDT. The site was not allowing me to function on Computer #1, but Computer #3 allowed me to get batteries and charger. Computer #2 was not able to get online. Computer #5 I was able later order the camera. I have wired GbE, two bowsers, and yet still an issue pre-ordering. I never had that issue with Canon, but the exact time was known in advance and earlier in the morning.
I never had that issue with Canon, but the exact time was known in advance and earlier in the morning.