p.19 #1 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Out the Window - hand held practice footage
I'm practicing holding the camera inside the car and facing out the window. What do you think - is this image quality acceptable for amateur Youtube videos?
When you watch this video pretend that I am driving through the Rocky Mountains or some beautiful scenic countryside.
This was shot with an ultra-wide Canon RF16 f2.8 lens which is notoriously bad for IBIS-wobble when on a Canon R5, but shooting at 4K120 smooths out the bumps and wobbles quite a lot.
p.19 #2 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Out the Window - hand held practice footage
I'm practicing holding the camera inside the car and facing out the window. What do you think - is this image quality acceptable for amateur Youtube videos?
When you watch this video pretend that I am driving through the Rocky Mountains or some beautiful scenic countryside.
This was shot with an ultra-wide Canon RF16 f2.8 lens which is notoriously bad for IBIS-wobble when on a Canon R5, but shooting at 4K120 smooths out the bumps and wobbles quite a lot.
Thanks,
Rudy
Rudy,
I think it is fine for YouTube.
Would you be using footage like this for B-roll or a moving documentary of sorts?
p.19 #3 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
dj63401 wrote:
Rudy,
I think it is fine for YouTube.
Would you be using footage like this for B-roll or a moving documentary of sorts?
Dave
Thanks for your feedback, Dave. I plan on using this kind of footage as B-roll to add a bit of interest to my typical wildlife videos.
I'm experimenting with ways to increase the sense of taking viewers on a little adventure with me into the forest or by the river or lake. Right now all my videos take place at the location where the subject is, for example at the Osprey nest, the pond where the Grebes are, the spot where the Owl is perched, etc. What I would like to do is make the whole video feel more like going on a little day-trip which naturally would include getting to the filming location and likely leaving it, hence the "out the car window" footage. Anyways, that's the plan.
I'm also working on improving my technique of walking in the woods while hand holding my camera while filming. This also is to add interest to my typically static videos and hopefully will give folks a sense walking along with me on the trails. To get an appreciation of being in the woods I feel you need some kind of a wide angle lens so I bought the Canon RF 16 f2.8 which is the only one I could afford (the RF 16-35 is out of the question for my budget). Anyways, the IBIS wobble with the RF 16 f2.8 on the R5 is insane so I've been practicing how to mitigate that. I've just discovered that shooting in 4K120 does reduce it but only very slightly, not enough to make it useable. However, shooting the RF 16 f2.8 in 4K60 crop mode gives a massive improvement because you're now effectively shooting with a 27mm wide angle lens instead of a 16mm ultra-wide. This makes all the difference in the world - no more pesky IBIS wobble in the upper corners and the field of view is still wide enough to give a good sense of being in the woods. Plus, you get the added benefit of great image resolution since this video format is down-sampled from a 5.1K central section of the sensor.
I've been looking into getting a small gimbal for this purpose, but my big concern is that even the new DJI RS4 mini, which sounds amazing, would add another 2 pounds or more to my overall kit. It would be a far better solution for me if I could produce half decent handheld walking in the woods footage without needing any additional gear.
p.19 #4 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Dave. I plan on using this kind of footage as B-roll to add a bit of interest to my typical wildlife videos.
I'm experimenting with ways to increase the sense of taking viewers on a little adventure with me into the forest or by the river or lake. Right now all my videos take place at the location where the subject is, for example at the Osprey nest, the pond where the Grebes are, the spot where the Owl is perched, etc. What I would like to do is make the whole video feel more like going on a little day-trip which naturally would include getting to the filming location and likely leaving it, hence the "out the car window" footage. Anyways, that's the plan.
I'm also working on improving my technique of walking in the woods while hand holding my camera while filming. This also is to add interest to my typically static videos and hopefully will give folks a sense walking along with me on the trails. To get an appreciation of being in the woods I feel you need some kind of a wide angle lens so I bought the Canon RF 16 f2.8 which is the only one could afford (the RF 16-35 is out of the question for my budget). Anyways, the IBIS wobble with the RF 16 f2.8 on the R5 is insane so I've been practicing how to mitigate that. I've just discovered that shooting in 4K120 does reduce it but only very slightly, not enough to make it useable. However, shooting the RF 16 f2.8 in 4K60 crop mode gives a massive improvement because you're now effectively shooting with a 27mm wide angle lens instead of a 16mm ultra-wide. This makes all the difference in the world - no more pesky IBIS wobble and the field of view is still wide enough to give a good sense of being in the woods. Plus, you get the added benefit of great image resolution since since this video format is down-sampled from a 5.1K sample of the sensor.
I've been looking into getting a small gimbal for this purpose, but my big concern is that even the new DJI RS4 mini, which sounds amazing, would add another 2 pounds or more to my overall kit. It would be a far better solution for me if I could produce half decent handheld walking in the woods footage without needing any additional gear.
Rudy,
Sounds like a plan. Have you ever tried a cell phone for that type video. I was shocked how stable and good my very inexpensive android phones are for that. The expensive ones can shoot 4k and inexpensive 1080. A lot of YouTubers who do wildlife use them walking to sites, and they look fantastic, IMO.And you always have it with you. Give that a try sometime.
Or maybe you already have.
Dave
p.19 #5 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Walking in the Woods - hand held practice footage
Here's the plan:
I'm hoping to add a little more interest and movement to my usual wildlife videos this year by adding a couple of new elements to them. One element is having some nice landscape footage while driving to the location where I'll be filming the subject(s). Another element will be me walking on the trails in the woods to and from the filming location (except these won't be vlogging or selfie videos with my mug on the screen - only the trees, etc., will be presented).
Here's the problem:
With the recent purchases of a new 4K colour-accurate monitor, a Davinci Studio license, a new Canon 16mm lens, some ND filters and some other odds and ends, I've pretty well blown my hobby budget for the year and we're only into March. Therefore buying a new gimbal is a non-starter, at least for a while, and besides I don't really want to be lugging around another piece of gear in addition to my already substantial weight-load on my 3 kilometer hikes.
An additional problem comes from me needing to use a wide angle lens to do these landscape and forest shots effectively since my 50mm is too narrow. However, my new Canon 16mm lens when put on my Canon R5 camera produces some insane IBIS wobble that completely destroys the footage.
So a possible solution that I'm trying out is seen in the video below. I'm shooting the 16mm lens in 4K60p crop mode effectively reducing it to a 27mm field of view which cuts out most of the upper corner wobbling. Plus, I'm practicing my Ninja Walk technique as if I were holding a gimbal. The terrain in the video included a paved road, a snow-packed trail and a very rough foot path.
Would you mind commenting on whether you think the resulting practice footage in the video below is good enough to be used in amateur wildlife videos on Youtube? You can be brutally honest, I can take it.
Sorry for such a lengthy post and thanks for your time.
Rudy
p.19 #6 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
....
So a possible solution that I'm trying out is seen in the video below. I'm shooting the 16mm lens in 4K60p crop mode effectively reducing it to a 27mm field of view which cuts out most of the upper corner wobbling. Plus, I'm practicing my Ninja Walk technique as if I were holding a gimbal. The terrain in the video included a paved road, a snow-packed trail and a very rough foot path.
Would you mind commenting on whether you think the resulting practice footage in the video below is good enough to be used in amateur wildlife videos on Youtube? You can be brutally honest, I can take it.
Hello Rudy, I could only recognise a short wobble on the thin tree that comes into the picture at about seconds 8 and 9 on the left.
To my taste, you can continue working with the equipment and settings to record the new elements. Definitely in the year 2025 ;-)
I look forward to watching your upcoming videos.
Tom
p.19 #7 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Walking in the Woods - hand held practice footage
Here's the plan:
I'm hoping to add a little more interest and movement to my usual wildlife videos this year by adding a couple of new elements to them. One element is having some nice landscape footage while driving to the location where I'll be filming the subject(s). Another element will be me walking on the trails in the woods to and from the filming location (except these won't be vlogging or selfie videos with my mug on the screen - only the trees, etc., will be presented).
Here's the problem:
With the recent purchases of a new 4K colour-accurate monitor, a Davinci Studio license, a new Canon 16mm lens, some ND filters and some other odds and ends, I've pretty well blown my hobby budget for the year and we're only into March. Therefore buying a new gimbal is a non-starter, at least for a while, and besides I don't really want to be lugging around another piece of gear in addition to my already substantial weight-load on my 3 kilometer hikes.
An additional problem comes from me needing to use a wide angle lens to do these landscape and forest shots effectively since my 50mm is too narrow. However, my new Canon 16mm lens when put on my Canon R5 camera produces some insane IBIS wobble that completely destroys the footage.
So a possible solution that I'm trying out is seen in the video below. I'm shooting the 16mm lens in 4K60p crop mode effectively reducing it to a 27mm field of view which cuts out most of the upper corner wobbling. Plus, I'm practicing my Ninja Walk technique as if I were holding a gimbal. The terrain in the video included a paved road, a snow-packed trail and a very rough foot path.
Would you mind commenting on whether you think the resulting practice footage in the video below is good enough to be used in amateur wildlife videos on Youtube? You can be brutally honest, I can take it.
Sorry for such a lengthy post and thanks for your time.
Rudy...Show more →
Rudy,
No big problems with these samples at all.
Now get to filming!!
Dave
p.19 #8 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
tomba8tomba wrote:
Hello Rudy, I could only recognise a short wobble on the thin tree that comes into the picture at about seconds 8 and 9 on the left.
To my taste, you can continue working with the equipment and settings to record the new elements. Definitely in the year 2025 ;-)
I look forward to watching your upcoming videos.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thanks very much for watching and for your feedback. I really appreciate it.
p.19 #9 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
dj63401 wrote:
Rudy,
No big problems with these samples at all.
Now get to filming!!
Dave
Yes Boss, I'll get right on that lol.
The truth is that this particular technical challenge (terrible IBIS wobble) has had me stuck for a while and messing up my plans. I was out last week and lucked upon a cute little Boreal Owl in the forest, and while all my static shots with it perched on branches were fine, when I tried to get some environmental footage of me walking in the surrounding trees and fields the IBIS wobble with the RF16 ruined every shot. Now I can go back and redo the environmental motion shots and hopefully complete the video.
p.19 #10 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy, I just remembered that in addition to the ‘normal’ crop mode that you probably used, the R5 also has a Movie-Digital-IS mode, which in principle also crops. As I rarely film myself, I have no experience or comparison with this.
p.19 #11 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
tomba8tomba wrote:
Rudy, I just remembered that in addition to the ‘normal’ crop mode that you probably used, the R5 also has a Movie-Digital-IS mode, which in principle also crops. As I rarely film myself, I have no experience or comparison with this.
Thanks Tom, and yes you're right about the in-camera Movie Digital Stabilization function in the R5. I had it turned on at the time as I always do.
p.19 #12 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy - sorry I've been delinquent in posting gimbal footage. I've actually used it a bit yesterday but it was with a friend at her place and I'm not sure she'd want it posted so I'll work on outdoors stuff for you as soon as I can.
Your practice videos are great, but I do notice something: a lot are quick 5 second clips stitched together. If your experience is anything like mine, it's because it's hard to handhold extended shots really smoothly, so prior to buying this gimbal, a lot of my montages were 5-6 second clips stitched together because if I shot a 10-15 second clip, often only 5-7 seconds of it were usable in terms of being stable (this is with IBIS but not Dig IS). What this gimbal has allowed me to do is take 10, 15, 20 seconds or longer shots, and add smooth vertical panning movements to it. I don't know if you find this true, but for me handheld vertical panning is *much* harder to do smoothly than horizontal panning. It's great to be able to explore the X axis and not just live on the Y axis. And of course the gimbal has a setting to let me explore the Z exis as well (tilting the camera POV up/down which is also very difficult to do handheld smoothly).
In just my limited time with the RS4 Mini I'm starting to see the gimbal as almost a necessity for videographers who want to include camera motion into their videos. As great as static camera (meaning the camera's placement doesn't move outside of swiveling) videos can be, videos where the camera is in motion, can follow a subject, etc. imo opens up a new world of possibilities. I'm going to a friend's house in the next few days and they have a precocious 16 month old who loves running around. I'll bring the gimbal and ask if it's okay to post any of the resulting videos, and if I get their permission, will share here.
p.19 #13 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Walking in the Woods - hand held practice footage
Here's the plan:
I'm hoping to add a little more interest and movement to my usual wildlife videos this year by adding a couple of new elements to them. One element is having some nice landscape footage while driving to the location where I'll be filming the subject(s). Another element will be me walking on the trails in the woods to and from the filming location (except these won't be vlogging or selfie videos with my mug on the screen - only the trees, etc., will be presented).
Here's the problem:
With the recent purchases of a new 4K colour-accurate monitor, a Davinci Studio license, a new Canon 16mm lens, some ND filters and some other odds and ends, I've pretty well blown my hobby budget for the year and we're only into March. Therefore buying a new gimbal is a non-starter, at least for a while, and besides I don't really want to be lugging around another piece of gear in addition to my already substantial weight-load on my 3 kilometer hikes.
An additional problem comes from me needing to use a wide angle lens to do these landscape and forest shots effectively since my 50mm is too narrow. However, my new Canon 16mm lens when put on my Canon R5 camera produces some insane IBIS wobble that completely destroys the footage.
So a possible solution that I'm trying out is seen in the video below. I'm shooting the 16mm lens in 4K60p crop mode effectively reducing it to a 27mm field of view which cuts out most of the upper corner wobbling. Plus, I'm practicing my Ninja Walk technique as if I were holding a gimbal. The terrain in the video included a paved road, a snow-packed trail and a very rough foot path.
Would you mind commenting on whether you think the resulting practice footage in the video below is good enough to be used in amateur wildlife videos on Youtube? You can be brutally honest, I can take it.
Sorry for such a lengthy post and thanks for your time.
Rudy...Show more →
Imo walking with a FF camera requires a gimbal, R5 has really ugly wobble as is visible in your video even with crop and slowmo. R5 II is better but imo for slider/dolly kind of movements a gimbal is a must plus good technique.
As some times it is a pita to use a full size gimbal + R5, if I want a wide shoot I use a Osmo Pocket 3, it is surprisingly good and super convenient especially for some B rolls.
p.19 #14 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Walking in the Woods - hand held practice footage
Here's the plan:
I'm hoping to add a little more interest and movement to my usual wildlife videos this year by adding a couple of new elements to them. One element is having some nice landscape footage while driving to the location where I'll be filming the subject(s). Another element will be me walking on the trails in the woods to and from the filming location (except these won't be vlogging or selfie videos with my mug on the screen - only the trees, etc., will be presented).
Here's the problem:
With the recent purchases of a new 4K colour-accurate monitor, a Davinci Studio license, a new Canon 16mm lens, some ND filters and some other odds and ends, I've pretty well blown my hobby budget for the year and we're only into March. Therefore buying a new gimbal is a non-starter, at least for a while, and besides I don't really want to be lugging around another piece of gear in addition to my already substantial weight-load on my 3 kilometer hikes.
An additional problem comes from me needing to use a wide angle lens to do these landscape and forest shots effectively since my 50mm is too narrow. However, my new Canon 16mm lens when put on my Canon R5 camera produces some insane IBIS wobble that completely destroys the footage.
So a possible solution that I'm trying out is seen in the video below. I'm shooting the 16mm lens in 4K60p crop mode effectively reducing it to a 27mm field of view which cuts out most of the upper corner wobbling. Plus, I'm practicing my Ninja Walk technique as if I were holding a gimbal. The terrain in the video included a paved road, a snow-packed trail and a very rough foot path.
Would you mind commenting on whether you think the resulting practice footage in the video below is good enough to be used in amateur wildlife videos on Youtube? You can be brutally honest, I can take it.
Sorry for such a lengthy post and thanks for your time.
Rudy...Show more →
Rudy,
I think you can achieve your goal without a gimbal. If I'm understanding correctly, it sounds like you just want to tell more of a story in getting to your location. Since you are solo with one camera you will need a tripod and have to walk back and forth several times, but you can film yourself walking (not your whole body) but just your legs and feet from several different angles and focal lengths. Film on tripod with telephoto (zoomed in & out) to just a few footsteps and repeat from different angles, film your legs/feet walking by from side L to R, film the melting ice on the ground or your footsteps in the snow, film looking straight up to the sky with tree branches against blue sky, film some closeup of leaves blowing on trees, film a sunstar, film some mossy bark or frosty bark closeups, film some reeds blowing, and any other details along the trail....then, use your walking handheld shots (like at :10 and :40) and when you edit all these clips together with the same nature audio track and footsteps (off shoe mic to record your footstep audio) you will have a nice little story. If you have another cheap tripod you can even film the details of setting up your tripod with 3 different angles and focal lengths (think tight detail shots with bokeh). Closeups of unzipping your backpack and taking out your camera, etc..all while mixing the audio levels of zipper, etc. You can create a very cool little story doing this and then roll into your bird footage. If there's wind blowing film the texture of the water and sl-mo leaves blowing, etc.
I have a gimbal and it's cool but I do not think it's necessary for a lot of stuff. Did you put your camera strap around neck and push tight with arms to add stability while handholding? It doesn't have to be perfect if you are walking on the trail. I like your shot at :10 and :40 so I'm confident you can get what you want without a gimbal.
Wait for a warmer day and go out and shoot all the little details on the trail out to your location and I think you'll be fine.
p.19 #15 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Walking in the Woods - hand held practice footage
Here's the plan:
I'm hoping to add a little more interest and movement to my usual wildlife videos this year by adding a couple of new elements to them. One element is having some nice landscape footage while driving to the location where I'll be filming the subject(s). Another element will be me walking on the trails in the woods to and from the filming location (except these won't be vlogging or selfie videos with my mug on the screen - only the trees, etc., will be presented).
Here's the problem:
With the recent purchases of a new 4K colour-accurate monitor, a Davinci Studio license, a new Canon 16mm lens, some ND filters and some other odds and ends, I've pretty well blown my hobby budget for the year and we're only into March. Therefore buying a new gimbal is a non-starter, at least for a while, and besides I don't really want to be lugging around another piece of gear in addition to my already substantial weight-load on my 3 kilometer hikes.
An additional problem comes from me needing to use a wide angle lens to do these landscape and forest shots effectively since my 50mm is too narrow. However, my new Canon 16mm lens when put on my Canon R5 camera produces some insane IBIS wobble that completely destroys the footage.
So a possible solution that I'm trying out is seen in the video below. I'm shooting the 16mm lens in 4K60p crop mode effectively reducing it to a 27mm field of view which cuts out most of the upper corner wobbling. Plus, I'm practicing my Ninja Walk technique as if I were holding a gimbal. The terrain in the video included a paved road, a snow-packed trail and a very rough foot path.
Would you mind commenting on whether you think the resulting practice footage in the video below is good enough to be used in amateur wildlife videos on Youtube? You can be brutally honest, I can take it.
Sorry for such a lengthy post and thanks for your time.
Rudy...Show more →
Checkout some of Isabel Paige's videos to visualize what I'm talking about above. She does a really good job with setting the scene and telling a story of walking through the snow, etc:
The shot walking through the deep snow with a lantern is very cool:
p.19 #16 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Hi Carlo, action99 and artsupreme..., guys, thanks very much for taking the time to watch my practice footage and to respond with your very helpful comments and suggestions.
Just to clarify something, I don't want to be seen in my wildlife videos at all, not even my feet. I don't want the video to be about me in any way, but rather about the locations and the wildlife subjects living there.
Regarding personalizing them, I really enjoy doing the species research, writing the scripts and narrating my videos, but I don't want to be a visual part of them. A lot of videos produced for the TV show "Nature" which is broadcast on PBS in the US are like this and that's sort of what I'm aiming at.
Regarding putting some gimbal-like clips into the videos, it doesn't have to be a lot, just a few clips to add a bit more movement and interest into the overall video.
I've been doing some research lately on how to best achieve this, and if my current hobby budget permitted it (which it won't for a while), I think I would go with the Osmo Pocket 3 as acction99 suggested. However, I feel that my hand held walking footage as seen in my sample above will probably be OK for now since this will be such a small part of the overall video.
Carlo: Regarding the length of the forest walking clips, I just went into Davinci and measured them and they average between 15 to 25 seconds so I probably wouldn't be forced to stitch together a bunch of tiny little clips.
p.19 #17 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Carlo: Regarding the length of the clips, I just went into Davinci and measured them and they average between 15 to 25 seconds so I probably wouldn't be forced to stich together a bunch of tiny little clips.
Sorry I was just referring to your Forest Walk video, which upon re-watching seem to have fades from one clip to another every 5-7 seconds. If that was an artistic choice (vs. a pragmatic one) and you generally are satisfied with your handheld shots with no desire to expand outside of horizontal motion, then you probably don't need a gimbal.
If you want to add vertical motion and, in my view the most difficult to keep steady at least for me: tilt panning, then you may want to consider a gimbal. Unless you've got way more steady hands/technique than I do, in which case keep the money in your pocket!
p.19 #18 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Brett,
I forgot to mention in my previous post that yes, I did hold the camera out from my face with two hand extended and the neck strap taught. That seems to work fairly well. Thanks.
p.19 #19 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Carlo_M wrote:
Sorry I was just referring to your Forest Walk video, which upon re-watching seem to have fades from one clip to another every 5-7 seconds. If that was an artistic choice (vs. a pragmatic one) and you generally are satisfied with your handheld shots with no desire to expand outside of horizontal motion, then you probably don't need a gimbal.
If you want to add vertical motion and, in my view the most difficult to keep steady at least for me: tilt panning, then you may want to consider a gimbal. Unless you've got way more steady hands/technique than I do, in which case keep the money in your pocket!...Show more →
Thanks Carlo,
I made the clips 5-7 second in length to save you guys from being bored to death watch such long clips. Maybe I'll repost this sequence but use the entire length of each clip to give you a better idea of how it actually went. My biggest challenge was trying to walk smoothly on very uneven snow-packed walking paths. I suspect that in the Spring through the Fall it will be much easier to get better results.
p.19 #20 · Canon video thread for hybrid shooters...
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Thanks Carlo,
I made the clips 5-7 second in length to save you guys from being bored to death watch such long clips. Maybe I'll repost this sequence but use the entire length of each clip to give you a better idea of how it actually went. My biggest challenge was trying to walk smoothly on very uneven snow-packed walking paths. I suspect that in the Spring through the Fall it will be much easier to get better results.
Rudy
To clarify, if that was artistic intent to use 5-6 second clips and not a limitation due to difficulty handholding steady shots for longer, then you probably don't need a gimbal (at least in terms of shots where the camera is moving horizontally).
With regards to difficulty walking smoothly on uneven snow-packed paths...well the gimbal will relieve of a lot of the need to walk smoothly as it will provide a lot of the stabilization but you'd still need to walk *carefully* because slipping and falling would be detrimental to the body...both human and camera.
Outside of that, if you don't need or want to add smooth vertical camera motion, or smooth tilt and pan camera motion (both of which a gimbal excels at) then you're probably fine handholding if you're happy with the output you've had thus far.
